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I do not have a chemical engineering degree and The things tested on the report look good except for silicon. I have a lifetime of anecdotal evidence and worked in this industry for 4 decades. I have had to deal with lots of customers that did not change oil in a timely manner and the manufacturer would not support goodwill help as a result. Same with engine problems and extended warranty. My worries would be what the Blackstone report does not look for. The oil seems to be doing well but what goes on in the oil with suspended contaminants at 245F or higher oil temps? These engines do that towing in 90+ ambient temps. What part of the Blackstone report indicates acidity? I assume the metals would go higher. Iron is higher but what caused that? the silicon or is it something not on the report. I know the iron is your engine wearing but what part?
I can tell you with no question that draining crankcase and replacing oil lowers iron levels and silicon levels and any unmeasured acids or anything else that is going on with the oil that is not checked with UOA.
What is your goal with going so long between crankcase drains?
 

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Discussion Starter #22
Appreciate the info, I asked Blackstone for test results of Rotella or Motorcraft and was told they could not share but that they were very similar and comparable to the Amsoil. That there has me questioning if I’m wasting money putting this oil in that cost so much.

To answer your question, what am I looking to accomplish ?

$$$$$$$$$$$$

Operating costs on these diesels is astronomical in comparison as to what I use to spend on my first 7.3 in 1999. I know they do so much more, yada yada yada but besides operational costs they are a ***** when they go bad. I usually trade them out every 2-3 years or 100-150K miles. I plan on keeping this one at least until I see what the new 7.3 gasser does. Unleaded is so much cheaper than diesel, don’t have to jack with DEF or worry about a huge bill when/if injectors, or fuel system problems come up.
 

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For
years people have sworn by Amsoil and many have said 60K between changes as long as you swap filters at proper service intervals.
Amzoil has changed their "OCI" quite a few times over the years. Last I looked their oil list that supports extended OCI is QUITE short and often quite expensive. Not to mention in the past their extending OCI practices involved adding fresh oil when you changed the filters on the OEM intervals. For me that gives a false positive on the testing results that the oil is "still good to go". Of course it is, you just added in more additives to sway the test results....that's not the same as a full fresh oil change.

As far as operating costs for maintenance items we are discussing: Okay the standard items are generally oil, oil filter, fuel filters, air filters. They aren't that expensive in the big scheme of things, there's not a shortened change interval since they seem to have extended them across the board.

In the end.....If Amzoil (and their hype) was really that good we all would already be using it. Which we all know......we are not.

If spending that extra money to travel longer driving distances between oil intervals, doing less maintenance cause you are working, and paying for oil analysts to tell you what to do when......$pend that money!!

I like the Amzoil bypass filter setup, I just wish I could use the OEM filter on the primary side. I ran the bypass on my 6.0L and just bought a new filter every year. It wasn't that expensive in the big scheme of things. It added maybe a full QT to the fill process cause of the filter material. I wasn't going to run a tad short on oil if I could prevent it.
 

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Here is something to back up what jimmy is eluding to.

The 20 micron filter will only remove particles greater than 0.0007874 of an inch. Diesel combustion creates particles of 0.000393701 of an inch and smaller. These will pass right through that filter and accumulate over time. Eventually they build up in the oil an saturate it with these tiny particles that the filter just cannot remove, and oil testing doesn't test for. Here is a list of chemicals and such from each combustion stroke, some of which gets past the rings and into the oil.


Carbon (soot)
Carbon monoxide
Carbon dioxide
Oxygen
Water vapour
Nitrogen
Oxides of nitrogen (e.g., nitrogen oxide, nitrogen dioxide)
Oxides of sulphur (e.g., sulphur dioxide)
Alcohols
Aldehydes
Ketones
Hydrocarbons
Polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs)
Diesel particulate matter (DPM)

Over time this builds up in the oil and can cause engine damage. Even the best oil in the world can't compensate for the buildups.
 

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Discussion Starter #25
For

Amzoil has changed their "OCI" quite a few times over the years. Last I looked their oil list that supports extended OCI is QUITE short and often quite expensive. Not to mention in the past their extending OCI practices involved adding fresh oil when you changed the filters on the OEM intervals. For me that gives a false positive on the testing results that the oil is "still good to go". Of course it is, you just added in more additives to sway the test results....that's not the same as a full fresh oil change.

As far as operating costs for maintenance items we are discussing: Okay the standard items are generally oil, oil filter, fuel filters, air filters. They aren't that expensive in the big scheme of things, there's not a shortened change interval since they seem to have extended them across the board.

In the end.....If Amzoil (and their hype) was really that good we all would already be using it. Which we all know......we are not.

If spending that extra money to travel longer driving distances between oil intervals, doing less maintenance cause you are working, and paying for oil analysts to tell you what to do when......$pend that money!!

I like the Amzoil bypass filter setup, I just wish I could use the OEM filter on the primary side. I ran the bypass on my 6.0L and just bought a new filter every year. It wasn't that expensive in the big scheme of things. It added maybe a full QT to the fill process cause of the filter material. I wasn't going to run a tad short on oil if I could prevent it.

I was saying operating costs have increased drastically compared to back in the days of the 7.3 Power Stroke. Hell Diesel alone cost more than regular unleaded fuel. Operating costs far exceed that of a gasoline engine. I just replaced the high pressure oil system on a F450 6.0 and what I paid for that fix alone, I could have got a new long block on a gas motor. Im very interested to see what's Fords 7.3 gasser is like and not to change the subject too much but the Electric F150.

The frequent testing was only done in beginning to determine how far I could safely extend my oil change intervals, now its only done at time of oil change.


If Im reading your post, you are stating that Amsoil is snake oil. I am beginning to think that and on next oil change, might just go back to Motorcraft oil with the Amsoil filter. I will test every 7500-10,000 miles and compare to Amsoil and determine how far I want to push it. It not that I can't afford the truck or what it cost, I just believe oils, filters and engines have improved drastically and the old guidelines of changing oil every 3000 miles doesn't apply. As stated earlier, if a Camry can go 10,000 miles on 5 quarts and go god knows how many trouble free miles then why can't a truck that isn't under severe duty ?


Thanks for everybody's input
 

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I do not think Amsoil is snake oil.
I think it has good synthetic base stock and an excellent additive package to counter the negatives listed in an above post. In the world of motor oil, these are the two methods of blending a superior oil.

Amsoils problems are the result of two things:

1) It modeled itself too similar to Amway and created immediate distrust. Heck, they even sound similar—Amsoil & Amway. Most of us here are old enough to remember “Scamway”.

2) It made outrageous promises of 4X-5X the OCI of other oils and this is an absurd claim. They should have been more conservative and stuck with a claim of 2X the competition.

If I wanted to run extended OCIs of any sort, I would choose Amsoil in front of either Motorcraft or Rotella.
But I make no secret that my first choice would be Mobil Delvac-1.
I even put a little of that in my morning coffee when I run out of creamer. Its thats good. ?
 

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Here is a list of chemicals and such from each combustion stroke, some of which gets past the rings and into the oil.


Carbon (soot)
Carbon monoxide
Carbon dioxide
Oxygen
Water vapour
Nitrogen
Oxides of nitrogen (e.g., nitrogen oxide, nitrogen dioxide)
Oxides of sulphur (e.g., sulphur dioxide)
Alcohols
Aldehydes
Ketones
Hydrocarbons
Polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs)
Diesel particulate matter (DPM)
The Blackstone Report in the first post should have TBN/TAN values. Any decision to run extended OCI should include TBN/TAN.

https://www.spectrosci.com/resource-center/lubrication-analysis/literature/e-guides/guide-to-measuring-tantbn/

The decision should also include the use of a Bypass Filter System as I mentioned in an earlier post since the secondary filter is small enough to remove Soot.

EDIT:
Extended being any mileage beyond Ford’s recommendation.
 

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Discussion Starter #28
I do not think Amsoil is snake oil.
I think it has good synthetic base stock and an excellent additive package to counter the negatives listed in an above post. In the world of motor oil, these are the two methods of blending a superior oil.

Amsoils problems are the result of two things:

1) It modeled itself too similar to Amway and created immediate distrust. Heck, they even sound similar—Amsoil & Amway. Most of us here are old enough to remember “Scamway”.

2) It made outrageous promises of 4X-5X the OCI of other oils and this is an absurd claim. They should have been more conservative and stuck with a claim of 2X the competition.

If I wanted to run extended OCIs of any sort, I would choose Amsoil in front of either Motorcraft or Rotella.
But I make no secret that my first choice would be Mobil Delvac-1.
I even put a little of that in my morning coffee when I run out of creamer. Its thats good. ?
I guess Snakeoil was a strong word but now you bring up Amway and your post is exactly what I was thinking and trying to say.

You provide a lot of helpful information, thanks again
 

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There will be many that will suffer using 10K oil changes in a Camry. The easy driving parent that works from home and does child-school shuttling and likely warms up engine via remote start winter for heat and summer for a cool car.
Car manufacturers' engineers push for reduced interval for anyone but a no traffic 40 mile each way commuter. Marketing wants to have low maintenance so they win. When I worked for a car manufacturer for 21 years the oil service interval getting lengthened was a battle but money wins every time unless warranty costs will go up and that can be shown with HIGH certainty.When the factory scheduled maintenance is added in the mfr saves millions with extended intervals and cutting one or two oil services out. If they have a 2yr/24k mile cover and the interval is 7.5K they pay for 3, change it to 10K and that is now 2. If you figure a $125 cost for an oil change at a dealer and they sell 250K camries then they save $31,250,000 on eliminating one oil service.
Drop it to $100 and it is 25 million. If I were paying I'd make the first change at 15K with 10K thereafter and miss paying for the second one and get that other 25 mill.
 

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Amzoil costs $$$, add to that the requirements of testing $$$.....Please show me the math where you save $$$$$$$$ when going to longer OCI. Please include all costs.
 

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I have in the past done a lot of testing when I got my first 99. Reg old Rotillia was still good at 6,000 so that is what I went to for change interval. Then we took the truck to Italy and oil was very expensive. So I did the AMSOIL single bypass and went extended drain. I would usually run it 20,000-30,000 miles with no problems only reason I changed was usually I had valve cover/turbo off for one upgrade or another so just figured I would change in case some crap got in the oil. If you are going to change at say 25,000 I would only test it through the first run. Once you know it will go that long, just do one test at the final drain or not at all. Most people don't test the oil when doing 5-10 grand changes and never think twice about it. I usually put less than 10,000 miles on my trucks now so I only change once a year. Time is money so if you put a lot of miles on your truck in one year 50,000 eliminating 4 oil changes will pay for itself in both supplies and labor. No right or wrong just things to think about.
DENNY
 

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Discussion Starter #32
Amzoil costs $$$, add to that the requirements of testing $$$.....Please show me the math where you save $$$$$$$$ when going to longer OCI. Please include all costs.
Amsoil with filter $175 plus $35 OA = $210 every 25,000 miles

Motorcraft with filter $160 every plus #35 OA = $195 every 7500 Miles

I only tested frequently until my baseline was established, according to Amsoil OA I can extend the service interval if wanted but would have to add another $30 for new filter and $12 for the extra quart of oil.



I have in the past done a lot of testing when I got my first 99. Reg old Rotillia was still good at 6,000 so that is what I went to for change interval. Then we took the truck to Italy and oil was very expensive. So I did the AMSOIL single bypass and went extended drain. I would usually run it 20,000-30,000 miles with no problems only reason I changed was usually I had valve cover/turbo off for one upgrade or another so just figured I would change in case some crap got in the oil. If you are going to change at say 25,000 I would only test it through the first run. Once you know it will go that long, just do one test at the final drain or not at all. Most people don't test the oil when doing 5-10 grand changes and never think twice about it. I usually put less than 10,000 miles on my trucks now so I only change once a year. Time is money so if you put a lot of miles on your truck in one year 50,000 eliminating 4 oil changes will pay for itself in both supplies and labor. No right or wrong just things to think about.
DENNY
Correct, I only test at time of oil change. The frequent changes in beginning were to establish a baseline where I would determine change intervals. I am turning about 50,000 miles annually, lots of driving.
 

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$160 for oil? $77.26 DIY.
 

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Motorcraft with filter $160 every plus #35 OA = $195 every 7500 Miles
That must be that new Common Core Math. LOL

Not sure how you get to $160 or why you want to add the $35 OA (not really required for 7500 mile changes) to the cost but hey...you do you.

Amsoil with filter $175 plus $35 OA = $210 every 25,000 miles
Do you honestly go 25k without any additional oil added or filter changes?? What flavor of Amzoil are you using??
 

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I would change my main filter at 10-12 grand and Bypass at 25 grand. Makeup oil was as usual, fresh oil was good for about 5 grand than used a Qt every 2 grand give or take how hard it is working. Oil usage is about the same with or without bypass once you have 4-5 grand on the oil.
DENNY
 

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Discussion Starter #36 (Edited)
That must be that new Common Core Math. LOL

Not sure how you get to $160 or why you want to add the $35 OA (not really required for 7500 mile changes) to the cost but hey...you do you.

Damn dude, you gotta get the last word in dont you ? :eek:hthedrama:


https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/b/motorcraft-4335/chemicals---fluids-16461/oil-16865/motor-oil---full-synthetic-25265/0065378f5577/motorcraft-synthetic-motor-oil-5w-40-5-quart/syn5405qt/4491374/2017/ford/f-250-super-duty?q=motorcraft+Diesel+oil+5w-40&pos=8

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

x 3 = $120 You Follow me so far ?

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/b/motorcraft-4335/filters-16470/oil-filter-12090/80c2d8dbb188/motorcraft-oil-filter/fl2051s/4485284/2017/ford/f-250-super-duty?q=oil+filter&pos=7

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

$120 + $20= $140

$140 + $35 OA because Its my truck, I pay the note and can do whatever the F&@K I want and I want to know how my motor is wearing. I call it simple addition and multiplication , no calculator required.

I trust Amsoil in their claims that the oil can go extended intervals, I trust the engineering that says the filter can go what it does and I trust Blackstone Labs telling me oil can go further, I just choose to change it at 25K versus pushing it further. These are both ISO companies who spend millions of $ in research to provide the info they do. You show me something factual that you have and I will believe it but just because you say and are a keyboard warrior doesn't hold a damn drop of water to what I have.

I asked a simple question about what could be causing high silicone levels and you have derailed the post into criticizing my routine maintenance schedule. Thanks to those who provided help and I dont have a problem answer questions for other forum members but damn dude you come off as a dick

Do you honestly go 25k without any additional oil added or filter changes?? What flavor of Amzoil are you using??
https://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/motor-oil/diesel/signature-series-max-duty-synthetic-diesel-oil-5w-40/?code=DEOQT-EA

https://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/transmission-fluid/automatic/oe-fuel-efficient-synthetic-automatic-transmission-fluid/?code=OTLQT-EA

https://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/filters-and-by-pass-systems/oil/amsoil-ea-oil-filters/?code=EAO98-EA#fullDescription
Yes I do go 25K without any additional oil, I use a filter that's rated for that mileage and the truck doesn't burn a drop of oil and I check weekly(roughly 1000 miles) Do you have secret intel that says I should add when not consuming or losing oil ? My truck will be 2 years old in 4 weeks, I have 95,000 miles where all Ive done is change the oil, trans fluid 30K,60K,90K, Transfilter, fuel filters and air filter and its never been into Ford House for a thing. Its the best diesel I have owned I doubt I will have it another year but I am about to delete it just to increase fuel economy. The truck has made me 10s of 1000s of $$$ by moving a 12,000# piece of machinery between sites in Texas as well as moved over 1,000,000 #s of Quartz and Granite between Dallas, Austin and San Antonio. When loaded with Stone or machinery, Im right under the 25,999#s before I need a CDL or DOT.


Damn dude, you gotta get the last word in dont you ? :eek:hthedrama:


https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/b/motorcraft-4335/chemicals---fluids-16461/oil-16865/motor-oil---full-synthetic-25265/0065378f5577/motorcraft-synthetic-motor-oil-5w-40-5-quart/syn5405qt/4491374/2017/ford/f-250-super-duty?q=motorcraft+Diesel+oil+5w-40&pos=8

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

x 3 = $120 You Follow me so far ?

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/b/motorcraft-4335/filters-16470/oil-filter-12090/80c2d8dbb188/motorcraft-oil-filter/fl2051s/4485284/2017/ford/f-250-super-duty?q=oil+filter&pos=7

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

$120 + $20= $140

$140 + $35 OA because Its my truck, I pay the note and can do whatever the F&@K I want and I want to know how my motor is wearing.
 

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Okay...all you had to say was..."I want to spend the most money on oil I possibly can cause I want to."

That's really all you had to say.

Enjoy the 25k intervals.
 

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Discussion Starter #39
Frank,

< 0.5 Fuel, I use Ford Filters. Silica is introduced via the intake system but comes from many different orgins.

Thanks
 

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Thread now painfully long to read through.

High Silica in UOA.

Out of curiosity, do you run Blackstone tests at 10,000 miles?

What are the silica levels?

I don’t know what the silica should be at 25K miles because very few people run 25K mile OCI.

Many people run 10K mile OCI and so there is a good baseline average established.

My own opinion is you need a dual filter bypass filter like I said in my first post.

It is very impressive that you have worked that engine so hard and it does not burn a quart of oil in 25K miles.
 
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