[toughwaters]

Hey everyone!
I just bought a 2000 F-250 Powerstroke and am wondering how I can tell if its chipped, or if the PCM has been reprogrammed, or if nothing has been done at all? The dealership where I bought the truck didnt know and this is all new to me. The truck has an aftermarket ATS exhaust system and three gauges that tell me the boost, tranny temp, and exhaust temp. I have a boat but dont dare tow it if the truck it chipped to "Performace" So If you have a suggestions on how to tell please let me know. I would really appreciate it.

thanks again.

 

[rlarkin]

My first guess would be, that if the PO had the knows enough to install a gauge set, chances a pretty good.

Now, for a chip, you will need to remove the PCM cover. The black box mounted just above the E-brake. 2 bolts. There will be a square hole facing you. If you see the unprotected edge of a PC board, then no chip is currently in the truck. Look at the contacts next. If they appear to have been scraped clean, then a chip was in, but is now out.

As far as a programer. No real way to tell except to have the dealer reflash the PCM. If the power goes down, then it prolly has a programer, but is now stock again.

MY BAD! I almost forgot the most important part.
WELCOME TO THE DIESEL STOP!

 

[aramtractor]

Actually i know alot of guys with absolutly nothing done to the truck but bumper stickers and they have 3 or even 5 guages. Some people are just paranoid lol.

 

[toughwaters]

yeah I probably am a bit paranoid but Id hate to burn up my engine. Im going to look for a chip in the PCM tomorrow and get it flashed within the next few days. Im starting to think that its not chipped, it certainly isnt the fastest vehicle on the block.

 

[Kanman]

Drive a stock truck, one that you know is not chipped. Should be little doubt left after driving a chipped truck then going back to stock.

 

[wildbill1963]

In addition to was said, I would monitor the boost gauge and EGT's. A chipped engine will most likely get higher EGT's (i.e. can hit 1200+ a lot faster on WOT), and the boost gauge should display 20+ lbs.

If you can spin the tires, odds are you have something in there!

 

[Cool_Canuck]

[ QUOTE ]
yeah I probably am a bit paranoid but Id hate to burn up my engine. Im going to look for a chip in the PCM tomorrow and get it flashed within the next few days. Im starting to think that its not chipped, it certainly isnt the fastest vehicle on the block.

[/ QUOTE ]
If you got the gauges, then monitor them. You won't burn it up towing with the chip if you keep the EGT reasonable. That's why the gauges are there.

 

[CharlieII]

Just take a look at where the pyro probe is mounted. You'll need to know if it's pre or post in order to read it correctly.






(But you really need to check pre or post to see if it's usefull or just for looks /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif)

 

[marksuttonjr]

[ QUOTE ]


As far as a programer. No real way to tell except to have the dealer reflash the PCM. If the power goes down, then it prolly has a programer, but is now stock again.

[/ QUOTE ]



DO NOT HAVE THE PCM reflashed. If it has had a programer used on it only that specific programer can reflash it to stock form. If they reflash it at te dealership and it had been programed you will be buying a new PCM. I know that from experiences that the dealersip where my father works at has had with trade ins that they reflashed.

Just watch your gauges, and you will be OK.

 

[toughwaters]

Im confused? How do I tell its pre or post?

 

[CharlieII]

Find the probe, or the lead to the probe then trace it, and see if it's mounted in the (exhaust manifold, up-pipe)pre, or (downpipe)post. Pre means pre turbo. Just look for the probe and see if it's before or after the turbo in the exhaust stream. Then based on that discovery, decide if that location works for you. I'm not even going to try and start that debate, just do a search on pre vs. post and use that to make your decision. But if you get in it hard and it's pre, the gauge should take off pretty much proportionate to the motor load. If it's post, it will be lazy and generally out of the game and never really get up there. I don't know for sure on a stock truck(we don't know) but if you stand in it all the way through the gears and it doesn't get past like 800 I would say it's post. Mine would be at like 1550+ with my setup all the way through the gears. Heck if I tryed to pull out 6th it would pin 1600 easy. If you have to work it hard to see 800 it's either post or not chipped. Because chipped with a pre probe would be an easy 1200 deg at wot through the gears.

So if you can locate the probe location, based on your temps at wot you could more than likely tell if it was chipped or not. The boost will tell as well. If it's not at or over 20psi then it's most likely stock.

 

[sharper]

Pre turbo will be just that, before the turbo. My pyro is located pre turbo, in the drvier's manifold near the bend. Follow the the little wire to where it connects to the exhaust, and then you will know if it is pre turbo or post. If it is in the down pipe, behind the turbo, then it is post turbo.

The difference is that the pre turbo will be more of an accurate reading and will rise and fall faster. Safe temps for this area are less than 1350, but I have occasionally seen higher for short periods and been fine. Sustained temps should not be higher than 1350. If you have post turbo, then you could change it, or just subtract about 200 degrees and don't get higher than 1150 or so for very long. Heat is lost by the time it clears the turbo, so the reading will be less accurate and lower than it really is, so they say.

As far as towing. Go for it. That is what the gauges are for. I tow with my chip on all the time. Just watch your tranny gauge, make sure it stays under about 220. Boost gauge under about 25. And, turbo temp or pyro, under 1350 or 1150 depending on where it is located. If I were you, I would hope it has the chip personally. You can always have the chip reprogrammed if you don't like the current setting.

Good luck

Spence

 

[CharlieII]

Like I said, I'm not gonna try and relive this debate again. But I think you should definately check out the thread Pre turbo probe EGT question in (7.3 upgrades and aftermarket). It was discussed there in its entirety.


1150 deg. POST (Holy crap). My pre gauge would be pointing straight down, or maybe rolling back up. PLEASE don't do that. It wouldn't be hard for that to equate to 1650-1700 deg. or even more.

That's the EXACT point I was trying to make in the other thread about how people are mislead into thinking they can add "like 300 deg" and it will be correct. It's that train of thought that leads one to believe that they can just subtract 200 from the 1350 and run post at 1150. Well that's murdering your motor(without a doubt). By the way where did 1350 and 200 deg. come from? International says 1250, and most proponents of the post probe say add 300.

Do what you want, it's your truck.
If I try and set out some facts, post probe guys will come out of the woodwork, so I don't care anymore. I don't know why I care so much actually. I guess you can just melt one into the pavement too. I did it with the post, and I've got it running again now. Maybe that's the only way to learn?

 

[sharper]

Charlie you need to chill out man. I don't have a post turbo pyro, and I didn't recommend it. He doesn't even know where his sensor is located at yet. All I did was give him some guidelines.

As far as pre turbo, I have driven 2 different trucks with pre turbo pyros, and have driven at sustained temps for very long tows, through mountains, weighing 24k at around 1300 degrees, pre turbo. Total of nearly 200k miles between the two trucks, never lost a turbo or motor. I have even seen occasional temps over 1400, pre turbo, when I wasn't watching the gauge directly. Again, no loss of turbo or motor. Maybe International recommends 1250 pre turbo, but I know that to be below what I have seen and safely used.

Post turbo numbers are slower to indicate true temps and are around 200 degress lower than actual manifold temps during sustained temperatures. I suppose the longer you stay at the same temp, the closer pre and post numbers would get, but still lower post turbo. The opposite would also be true. If you hammer it quickly, you would most likely see a larger difference, maybe that is what you mean. My experience is that those short temperature bursts, within reason, don't really mean a whole lot. It's the long, sustained temps that kill, and I think 200 degrees difference is about right during those times, leaving a max sustained post turbo number of about 1100-1150.

Charlie, I am not telling you what to do, just my experience. You could just leave the truck stock and be even more safe. To each his own, but 1350 pre turbo works just fine for me. As far as post turbo, I don't recommend it, otherwise that is where mine would be.

Spence

 

[CharlieII]

I'm sorry if my post made it seem like I was mad at you. That's totally incorrect. I am mad at those who perpetuate the post probe location and mislead others into thinking that adding some specific static value will "make the post probe accurate". It doesn't work like that. The hotter the egt's the greater the error. Do you really think it would be off by the same amount idleing for 4 hours as it would be at 1250 degrees pre for 4 hours? At idle it would be almost impposible to discern a difference, while at 1250 pre, the post would be way off.

Where ever you came across the 200 degree error margin, I personally believe that, or any other static value would represent a horrable misconception in gauge reading. If I had a post probe in, it would take a substantial amount of effort to get it to 1150, and I don't honestly think my pre turbo gauge would even be on the scale anymore.

I'm honestly glad to hear that you have had good luck running a little hotter than the oem reccomends. I don't want to see anyone break their stuff, it sucks. But I will just stick to the factory specified max. If International explicitly states that the max pre turbo egt(no mention of a post probe value)is 1250 sustained, that's good enough for me. I don't feel the need to do my own R&D. That doesn't mean I don't regularly pin the gauge for a couple seconds just playing around. But when I'm holding it there for hours on a trip, I don't feel the need to get that extra 5-10 mph and exceed the OEM max. But that's just me. Like I said, I have lost a motor because of this. It does happen. I know this is gonna sound like total bs, but my post probe was actually reading between 1100 and 1200 when she died. I now realize just how retardedly hot that was, and I can't believe I fell for it. I knew the motor seemed to hot(heat in the cab feeling) but they said just subtract right?

Anywho, sorry if my tone seemed like I was mad at you. Couldn't be further from the truth.

 

[davidboaz]

melting temperature for alluminum is 1190-1215 degrees F. Only difference is that the motor is a heat sink, so alluminum wont melt right away. If you see temps above this amount for an extended period of time it could be damaging. also this turbo is another reason to keep temps in a range less than 1300 degrees.

 

[sharper]

The melting temp of aluminum may very well be 1215 degrees, but we are talking about exhaust gas temp, not actual engine or turbo temp. Both the engine and the turbo will be lower in temp than what the pyro reads because the cylinders are surrounded by coolant/oil and the turbo has oil. Look, I'm not saying that there is a perfect temperature that is "safe". If you want to go by what International says, then don't get a chip, modify your exhaust, or change your air intake, they all exceed their recommendation. I use my pre turbo gauge to keep my EGT's lower than 1350, and that is what I recommended in this post. If 1350 pre turbo temp meant melted aluminum in my motor or turbo, I would have toasted it by now. All of this is aftermarket, and, therefore, is subject to personal interpretation.

 

[wildbill1963]

Last I read IH reccomends 1150 pre-Turbo. They are extremly safe.

I do know of a truck that pulls 20K on regular bases and has 350+K miles on it, and consistantly hits 1300 EGTS. It has an intake, echaust (4" full) and a Super chips running at 80hp. He does have gauges and this things is still running strong. That does not make it safe, however in my opinion.

 

[toughwaters]

WOW thanks guys.
Ive determined that the truck is not chipped. Theres not a chip in the PCM and my EGT doesnt get above 800 even when Im pushing it hard and my boost is never above 20. Thanks for all the advice. Everyones been a big help. Ive learned alot. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif

 

[1188]

Id almost have to say that your pryo probe is post turbo, Becuase I got a 4" exhaust and a afe stage 2 and my truck will hit 1150. I would deffinatly look to see where your probes located. Jim