[NapaBavarian]

Has anyone here used it? It seems to have a nicer price tag than banks, even when adding the exhaust, i wondered what other advantages/disadvantages might be.

http://www.hypermaxdiesel.com/category.php?catID=p01

 

[exekiel69]

you can ask huff about this he knows hes stuff.

Exekiel.

 

[Kennard04]

I liked the ATS system I had on my 86 6.9, it was a real power house and the location seemed a little more accessible when I did it many years ago. I was very happy with it, the ATS too was quite a bit cheaper than the Banks. Speaking of which, my bosses Banks equipped 7.3 just threw another turbo. I don't know why, or how, I just know it's not running and he has big bucks spent on Banks stuff.

 

[NapaBavarian]

It looked to me like both banks and ATS were $2300, but banks included the (bigger?) exhaust and ATS was 2000 + 300 for exhaust + $80 for downpipe and hardware...

 

[hesutton]

First you have to decide if you want a wastegated turbo or a non-wastegated turbo (Hypermax). ATS and Banks (both wastegated) are the same price once you buy the crap you need to complete the ATS kit.

Wastegated turbo's can make boost right off idle, reducing turbo lag. But, once an certain maximum intake pressure is reached, a diaphram opens a bypass to allow a certain amount of exhaust to bypass the turbine wheel, limiting the boost. Without the wastegate, those turbo whould provide too much boost which could harm the motor. If you like power right off the line.....look at wastegated turbos. If you don't care for that kind of power and like to see the kick in the pants at higher RPM, then look at Hypermax.

I have the Banks kit for several reasons. First, it is the most complete system, down to the last nut and bolt (they even give you antiseize and silicone). Second I wanted a wastegated turbo (so that eliminated the Hypermax). Third, I the "sales" person at ATS was rude and I wasn't going to spend my cash with them. So..........Banks it was. The installation was not too bad (especially with just the engine and tranny on a naked frame ). Fourth, Banks actually gives dyno numbers for performace gain. Most think that the numbers are inflated, but ATS and Hypermax both say 50% increase in power. If you do the math, ATS and Hypermax's claims are more bloated than Banks (i.e. 50% increase in power is greater than the dyno number Banks gives).

Heath

 

[Kennard04]

everyone i have ever talked to at Banks was very professional and very nice. I bought my ATS turbo many, many years ago. I don't even remember what it cost, but back then, there were no intercoolers, no 5" exhaust, no chips of course so I did the turbo and a K&N filter. I was on the cutting edge then. I like Gale Banks, he's a smart guy, he's more performance oriented than utility/towing than some other companies.

 

[NapaBavarian]

Thanks, just what I wanted to know, now I can weigh the options better.


[ QUOTE ]
First you have to decide if you want a wastegated turbo or a non-wastegated turbo (Hypermax). ATS and Banks (both wastegated) are the same price once you buy the crap you need to complete the ATS kit.

Wastegated turbo's can make boost right off idle, reducing turbo lag. But, once an certain maximum intake pressure is reached, a diaphram opens a bypass to allow a certain amount of exhaust to bypass the turbine wheel, limiting the boost. Without the wastegate, those turbo whould provide too much boost which could harm the motor. If you like power right off the line.....look at wastegated turbos. If you don't care for that kind of power and like to see the kick in the pants at higher RPM, then look at Hypermax.

I have the Banks kit for several reasons. First, it is the most complete system, down to the last nut and bolt (they even give you antiseize and silicone). Second I wanted a wastegated turbo (so that eliminated the Hypermax). Third, I the "sales" person at ATS was rude and I wasn't going to spend my cash with them. So..........Banks it was. The installation was not too bad (especially with just the engine and tranny on a naked frame ). Fourth, Banks actually gives dyno numbers for performace gain. Most think that the numbers are inflated, but ATS and Hypermax both say 50% increase in power. If you do the math, ATS and Hypermax's claims are more bloated than Banks (i.e. 50% increase in power is greater than the dyno number Banks gives).

Heath

[/ QUOTE ]

 

[chumstone]

what about mounting the turbo on the frame rail? Turbos sure mess up the engine compartment.

 

[asavage]

Oil coming out of the turbo is whipped to a froth, and it won't run uphill. How would you propose to return the oil to the sump? (I assume this is why Banks advises adding more holes to the chamber beneath the old CDR valve) It needs to drain away from the turbo, you can't let the feed pressure move the froth or it will start to leak by the shaft seals.

Also, you need to keep the plumbing short to minimize heat loss. Even wrapped pipes lose a lot of heat, which is lost boost.

Lastly, you don't need an even longer intake tract, it's long enough with an intercooler /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[agnem]

Napa, click the link to the turbo article in my sig.

 

[Vek]

I installed my first Hypermax system when Mr. Agne did, on an '88. Since then, that truck was totaled, and I bought two others - an '86 with the hypermax turbo and intercooler already installed, and an '89 into which I put the totaled turbo kit and the intercooler from the '86. I've since traded the '86, and will retitle and sell the '88 as a beater.

So, I've done a new install, a removal, and a reinstall, with an intercooler. All of it is very straightforward. No issues whatsoever with "completeness" of the kit. No special tools needed, unless you do the intercooler (torch and/or sawzall), though sawzall and porta-power make clearancing the firewall much easier, as I found on the downpipe install in my BIL's '97. Crowbar, hydraulic jack, and blocks worked just fine, but took longer.

What most don't tell you (and maybe don't know) is that the Hypermax downpipe is only 2.5" for the first 3 feet or so. The other two have a bigger pipe. Not that this is a problem - the power is there. I'm led to believe that the best system for raw power would be a non-wastegated Banks or ATS kit, both of which may now be obsolete. But, you'd get a 3" downpipe with them.

If you have an automatic transmission, I have no idea why you'd want a wastegated system. My trucks start building significant boost at 1500 rpm, and really get after it. You can keep your foot in it, and never drop boost. Wastegate not necessary.

My trucks are all sticks. They build boost fast enough to keep from smoking most of the time, unless you really bog it. During high rpm shifts (towing), there is NO lag or smoke when shifting. If you want a stoplight hotrod and you have a stick, get wastegated.

Wastegates represent an efficiency loss at higher rpms, since excess exhaust is throttled through the wastegate. Peak power levels may be comparable (and likely favor the wastegate from idle - 2000 rpm), but when exhaust pressure/flow exceeds that needed to generate necessary boost, the wastegate opens and that exhaust energy is wasted. You'll see this as increased fuel use.

On the latest installation in the '89 crew cab, I increased the downpipe size to 3.5" immediately after the pipe clears the firewall (maybe 1-1.5 feet from the turbo), and then increased to 5" by the transfer case, straight 5" back over the axle and out, using the tailpipe from shopdiesel.com which fits the super duties. Fits ours just fine. Final cost was probably equal to the Hypermax 3.5 system. I had to weld on the hangers - no big deal. They sell hanger clamps. It would have been better still to weld the hanger rods to a plain clamp and slip these on the pipe and tighten, allowing complete adjustability and more margin for error. I did succeed in keeping the pipe right up against (but clear of) the bed, though.

The 5" pipe sounds ANGRY from the outside, but is free of the drone I had with the 3.5 system. All in all a cool setup. Looks good, too, but people turn their heads with a "what the hell is that" look on their face when I get on it.

Unless I'm missing something, hypermax is the best deal going, especially if you do your own big exhaust. Glow plug and fuel filter access is fine. I'm very happy with mine.

-JV

 

[agnem]

Good golly Jerry, it's been forever since we've heard from you. Thats a lot of history right there, and a very nice write up. I'd have to agree completely. I'm sure it would be hard to tell, but did you notice any difference with the shortened downpipe? We were of course told that the 2.5" down pipe is tuned to that size as part of the "pulse" feature of the turbo. I would suspect your mod did not detract from the performance any just the same. Would love to hear a sound byte some time. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[Vek]

Mel,

I have yet to notice a difference in power. If anything, the current truck gets after it better than the others, with less apparent boost effort and EGT. I've yet to hook up to something substantial and tow it over a pass, though. That will be the acid test.

My engineer's opinion on the "pulse" deal is that the important pipes for tuning are the turbo head pipes. The function of the tuned length is probably to improve cylinder scavenging at low rpm, which would give improved boost at lower RPM from a large, non-wastegated turbo. Any and all pressure waves will be significantly reduced or eliminated by the time they meet the other cylinder bank's waves in the turbine housing, and bounce off/wind their way through the turbine blades and out the exhaust. By the time the exhaust reaches the turbo outlet, I'm of the opinion that you just want it out of there, as easily as possible.

The sound out the straight 5" is nuts. If loaded up or towing, you'll get a killer rap out of the exhaust passing through 1400-1500 rpm, and again (more mildly) passing though 1900-2100 rpm. Only when you're really on it, and loaded heavy. I can't place the sound, and it's not bothersome in the cab, but it reminds me of an older kenworth or peterbilt moving up through its gears.

I don't have a means of recording the sound, otherwise I'd be happy to oblige. But on a new installation, it's worth doing. Looks and sounds great, for not much more money. $125 for the tailpipe, and ~$100 for the 3.5" x 4" and 4" x 5" reducer, 8' of pipe, and clamps.

 

[NapaBavarian]

Any opinion on a custom 3-3.5 inch down pipe into a 5" pipw all the way back? Do you run 3.5 to the Tcase out of need or desire? (IE 5" won't fit)

 

[Vek]

This would require some pretty heavy-duty investigation. If you have a welder, a chop saw, And some skills and patience, you could lop off the downpipe head from the factory downpipe (you need to keep the downpipe head), hog it out to accept a 3" pipe, buy some various 3" pipe mandrel bends, and cobble together a pipe of your own. Or, send the lopped-off 2.5" downpipe to a mandrel-bending outfit. There are a few around, though they're tough to find.

One thing to keep in mind, is that the hypermax downpipe (top half) has a little bracket welded to it, and this bolts to the back of the starboard cylinder head, securing the downpipe and keeping the downpipe head (mentioned above) from separating from the turbo. Something like this would have to be welded to the new downpipe.

Or, you do like I did, and use the top half of the hypermax downpipe (maybe 12"-16" long), and immediately after it clears the tight spot at the firewall, slip on your bigger pipe (and clamp). For this length of bigger pipe, I hacked a section out of the hypermax 3.5" tailpipe, welded it to the hypermax-supplied 2.5" x 3.5" adaptor, and got the bends arranged so that it spat out backwards by the transfer case. I welded up the 3.5x4 and 4x5 adaptors to this, and clamped this to a straight run of normal 5" pipe, which I welded to the front half of the shopdiesel.com 2-piece tailpipe. The split in the shopdiesel tailpipe is right over the axle, and easy to deal with.

You know what I did? While I was figuring out this whole exhaust situation, I had the turbo on the truck, with just the downpipe bolted up. I drove it around that way - I don't sit and idle much. It wasn't excessively noisy. With those parts in place, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to have an exhaust shop take off the lower half of the downpipe, and build your system from there, assuming you supply the adaptors, 5" pipe, and tailpipe. The rest they could manage. Find a shop that bends big pipe to make the back half of your downpipe - the local shop here would only bend up to 3".

Look at all of the adapters, clamps, and pipes offered on shopdiesel.com. Study the adaptors in particular. You can get all of the adaptors with normal ends, large ends (for slipping over other pipe and clamping), or combinations of the two (normal one end, expanded on other, etc.). Piece it together, don't use too many clamped connections, and make the purchase. Shipping is reasonable. Make sure you got it right before you order.

-Jerry

 

[Vek]

Oh yeah - there is not room to run 5" forward of the tranny/transfer case. It gets pretty tight under the crossmember. Probably 4" max, 3" or 3.5" better.