[6-0 Momma]

I bought a 2004 F50 CC with in February. Since that time, have had the turbo off and cleaned since it seemed to have a bad case of turbo farts (figuring sticky turbo). Truck did fine after that, but now is either not engaging, is slow to engage or does not engage at all. It has also started back with intermittent turbo farts when really getting in on it. I am beginning to wonder if I will ever get my boy running like he should. He now has 120k miles. I have already cleaned the EBP sensor and have a replacement on standby. I have an appointment with the mechanic to drop off for new turbo, but want to make sure this is the right direction to proceed in before dropping the bucks. Any help is appreciated. I feel I have done everything possible.

 

[jbthomp]

please explain what you mean by turbo farts lol. need a little more information on this. any smoke white/black? does the low power issue seem to be worse at low speed or highway speed? normally if say it has low power on takeoff but better at highway speeds (or the other way around) that usually means turbo sticking. usually cleaning the turbo only works for a short time as it is almost impossible to remove all the corrosion from around the vanes. on first impression i think you are right about the turbo needing to be replaced. but depending on whether or not it is smoking excessively that could also be injector issues as these engines are prone to failing injectors especially at high mileage. which usually mean low power and not necessarily a misfire.

 

[6-0 Momma]

Ok, I will explain turbo farts. Ive heard this term used when a turbo is sticking and the truck essentially "farts" because of the sticky turbo. Yes, I have black smoke when it farts (when it decides). It does not matter what speed. It seems like when you try to accelerate the truck like trying to merge into traffic or getting out onto the main road, its like the turbo just decides to crap out or is slow to spool. It does not "fart", but simply does not spool. Then its like "Oh, ok" then either slowly spools or takes off like a bat out of hell. There have also been times when it has not done anything at all and I am basically driving a non-turbo. Only time it has farted here lately has been getting in on the truck kinda hard or in a climb and basically no turbo. I also have a Magnaflow and when it decides to crap out, you cannot hear the Magnaflow. As long as the Magnaflow sings, it has plenty power and normally turbo is working. Bad thing is, I have no boost gauge (yet) so I have no clue what the boost pressure is. Im not sure if the injectors have ever been done, but I certainly do not look forward to that. I read the the EBP sensor was basically the brain for the turbo, so took it off and cleaned the sensor itself. That made no difference, but may try the new sensor.

 

[jbthomp]

:roller: gotcha! lol that makes sense. yeah it does sound to me like the turbo unison ring is probably sticking. the back pressure sensor works with the map sensor and some other programmed values in the pcm to calculate the desired value for the turbo vanes as well as it is a way to check and see if the turbo is actually working or not. without having a scan tool hooked up and reading the values from the sensors i cant say for sure but i would suspect the turbo being bad especially if you have had issues with it in the past.

 

[6-0 Momma]

Thank you so much, JB! I basically needed confirmation of my thinking. I wanted to be sure of what I was doing and not just be throwing parts at it (along with money). I will be talking with the mechanic tomorrow about the same issue since some of the symptoms changed since we last talked to him. I found a turbo at a shop that specializes in turbos for about 200 bucks less that is brand new as compared to reman. Just need to make sure they still have it. Will keep you posted as to what the outcome is. Pray for me! :thumbsup:

 

[jbthomp]

not a problem. if you have anymore questions let me know i would be happy to assist if i possible can. good luck!

 

[6-0 Momma]

I have the turbo on now (done Friday). I know I have to give it a few days in order for everything to adjust to the new turbo. Doing better, no turbo farts. Still seems to be lacking some power but got confirmation of no problems with FICM or PCM per mechanic. Will be following up on Tuesday to let him know how its doing. Hopefully things will steadily improve as the truck adjusts, but we will see. Mechanic thinks exhaust side of turbo went bad and that cannot be cleaned. Still have new EBP sensor and may put that on as well (isnt it recommended with new turbo?). Mechanic mentioned that the "new program" does not even read the EBP. Is this true?? Im not sure what program version this truck is running. Upgrade on program from Ford may be next step. Not sure, though. Any thoughts?

 

[jbthomp]

Still have new EBP sensor and may put that on as well (isnt it recommended with new turbo?)

its not really recommended but it probably wouldnt hurt if you already bought one.

Mechanic mentioned that the "new program" does not even read the EBP

the ebp is one of the main sensors used to position the turbo. i would have a hard time believing that current calibrations would not use the ebp. but i cant say for sure as i work for international and not ford. if there is an updated calibration availiable then it would probably would be a good idea to get it done.

 

[dieselmac]

'03 and early model '04 use an inferred Exhaust Pressure. The EP sensor is just an ornament.

 

[6-0 Momma]

Ok, so its been roughly a week since the new turbo was installed. What a difference! Only thing now is pulling uphill. Seems that the turbo does not work pulling uphill (like up mountain going home). Used to be able to do 5th gear all the way to the top, but now have to downshift to 4th then turbo starts functioning. I have an appointment with Ford dealer Friday for program upgrade. Maybe that will be the last chapter in what has been an epic adventure with this truck. Will keep everyone posted as to what happens.

 

[jbthomp]

'03 and early model '04 use an inferred Exhaust Pressure. The EP sensor is just an ornament.

really? is this a ford calibration thing? i know in the navistar chassis the ebp sensor is used in calculations

 

[dieselmac]

Yep. It's a Ford calibration thing. It's only the 03/04 MY's. I believe they were having a problem with EP sensors clogging and causing the turbos to over boost and come apart. Here's some info on it.

 

[bismic]

Even if the inferred strategy is used, a v-reference short in the EBP sensor can still cause problems!

 

[6-0 Momma]

Yet another chapter...

I know its been awhile since Ive updated everybody, so here goes.

Took truck to the Ford dealer. They said they could do nothing for it since it had an EGR bypass modification. Total line of crap and I saw right through it. I found out its great to have friends. A mechanic friend of mine that works at the same dealer updated the programming. He had a list of something like 12-13 upgrades. Its now about 2 days since the programming and there has been some improvement, but still having the same turbo issue as before. I am seriously considering trying to get some video footage of what exactly this truck is doing and maybe...just maybe somebody can tell me something. My boy wants to run so badly. The power is there, but something is holding him back. When it tries to pull a steep grade, the turbo completely shuts down...basically like driving a non-turbo...and it does not matter the RPMs, its always the same result. Even running at 1500 RPMs and better, its the same story each time...speed and RPMs go steadily down until you downshift and even then sometimes turbo does not kick in or its delayed.

I have started running Stanadyne fuel additive and have been running it with every tank. Have had several people with diesels recommend it and it seems to have helped a bit. Will be getting new tires Thursday since my BFGs are worn out. Going down a size (285 to 265) hopefully will help a bit as well.

 

[teamroper60]

What do you mean the turbo "shuts down" on steep grades?? And how steep are you talking about?

Have you checked the boots for the intercooler for splits/cracks/pinholes??

 

[jbthomp]

do you know if you have any codes or can you have someone check. i am wondering if maybe you have a wiring problem between the ecm and the turbo control solenoid or maybe a bad connection. or maybe it is going into a derate situation. maybe your oil temperature is getting too hot. that would explain why it only does it under full load situations. it would help if you could get a list of all the active or inactive codes in the ecm

 

[6-0 Momma]

Teamroper...its just as I said. The turbo does not function at all on steep grades...no boost. You do not so much as hear a whistle or whine from it. I have to cross a mountain to and from work. The side going to work is not that bad, but coming home side is the steep side. I do not know how to describe the steepness. Tractor trailers have a hard time on it, slows them way down.

JB, all codes were cleared Friday when the programming was done. I will take the truck Thursday when I get new tires to the mechanic that put the turbo on and see what codes are in it, if any. I know I kept getting codes for the EGR and overboost/underboost before the turbo was replaced. Not sure if Im getting them now or not. I will definitely check the intercooler boots and see what is going on there. Thanks!

 

[DELTAJOHN]

Hey Momma,
Sorry to hear you are still having problems. Have you done a "turbo relearn"

Here is the procedure, it kinda gets everything back in "sync" again.



The low power and lag problem could be a result of the service "Tech" not performing the VGT re-learn strategy after flashing the computer. Here is the strategy you can perform it.

KAM (keep-alive-memory) reset & VGT learn procedure

1. Drive the truck until the engine and transmission have reached normal operating temperature.
(The VGT learn procedure requires that the oil and coolant temperatures be at normal operating temperature)

2. Flash truck back to stock (Only need to do this if running a tuner or module)

3. Turn on the headlights

4. Disconnect both batteries

5. Short out + to - battery cables to each other (Make sure both batteries are disconnected before doing this).

6. Let truck sit like this for 10-minutes

7. Turn off the headlights.

8. Re-connect batteries

9. Cycle the key to the run position twice. Pause in the “ON” position each time until the wait to start lamp goes out (minimum 5-seconds) and pause in the “OFF” position each time for 10-seconds to be sure the PCM has "gone to sleep".

10. Start the truck and let it idle for a minimum of 5-minutes at normal operating temperature. This allows the PCM to learn the EGR valve closed position value. Also you will likely hear the turbo pitch change several times during this period as the PCM learns the necessary duty cycles for accurate VGT control.

11. Complete the road test Drive Cycle:
15 miles of mixed driving (*should* be enough in most cases) to allow the PCM to "re-learn" its adaptive strategy.

Note: Anytime the batteries are disconnected, the PCM will throw the P1000 code until the “Drive Cycle” is completed.


As for the Tow/Haul mode, the transmission must re-learn your driving style and loads hauled again as this was cleared when the truck was re-flashed.


I used wire pieces with alligator clips to Short both sets of battery cables.


John

 

[DELTAJOHN]

Also, on the passenger side of the intake, there is a hose that goes to a "map" sensor (it's on a bracket by the evaporator, AC box) take the fitting out of the intake (13 mm deep socket) and make sure it is not plugged with goo. If it is, clean and reinstall, this sensor helps the PCM determine what boost you are producing.

 

[6-0 Momma]

Delta, thank you! When the mechanic put the new turbo on, he did a "relearn" program for the turbo but it was never given the driving portion of it though I guess I did that. It was late in the afternoon and he was ready to close. The truck set outside for about 15 minutes idling before I took off in it. Looking back though, the batteries were not unhooked when he was working on it and a lot of the other steps listed above were not either. This truck is programmed as stock as I currently do not run a programmer.

I tried last night to get video of what the truck was doing, but my boy had a good night last night. Im giving the new programming a couple more days to set in to see what, if anything, it does for it. Seems that it has helped a little, but not as much as I would expect. I am off from work Thursday, so will try this while I have the time. It certainly could not hurt him. I just wish I could finally get his problems figured out. I appreciate all the advice. I know some people would have told me to get rid of him already, but he ran good when test drove. It was not until a couple weeks after coming home that he went downhill. Its been a very frustrating journey with him and I hope it is worth it in the end. I will keep everybody posted. Maybe eventually I can write the last chapter of this horror novel and start on the happily forever after.