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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
7.3 gurus. Maybe someone can help!

E99 7.3, 225k miles, just swapped in a rebuilt 17deg hpop, and rebuilt ad injectors. Truck runs like crap, traced it down to blown orings on cyls 2 and 6, leaking oil from the upper o ring, re did the o rings on those 2, same issues after a few miles of driving, swapped the orings on all 8 from dorman to allied, after a few miles issues came back, cyl 6 leaking oil from upper o ring, put in new o rings on that cylinder, from ford, soon as it's started it was leaking again, ringed up one of the old injectors with ford rings, same problem. Hold down bolt is torqued to 120 inch pounds, tried to up it to 130, no difference. Hold down bolt hole is clean and dry, used new hold down in case old was stretched with no change, upper hold down is tight.
Could my injector cup be deformed not allowing the injector to seat correctly? Injectors appear to be seated fine when using a straight edge, cup had no visual problems that I can see.

Not sure if it is a head problem in the upper part of the injector bore, or cup. But I think it has to be one of the 2.

Thanks in advance for any ideas.
 

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Wow,
Ok, so do you have the metal backup ring on it above the top oring? So the backup ring is up top when the injector is in?
Pretty sure the top oring seals against the head and not cup but not sure and don't have a cup and injector to check.
How about the fixed post for the injector plate? Look ok?
Is there an extra copper crush washer or two in the bottom of cup?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Fixed post is good, no extra washer, the seals that are leaking are not sealed in the cup, but rather in the cast part of the injector bore.

Yesterday I took a small home to the bore to clean it up, as there was obvious wear where the o ring was sitting, didn't help Amy though. Is it possible for a head to wear put at this point? Getting really frustrated. Oh,and cyl 4 started leaking the same way last night as well.
Tonight I'm going to put my last 2 o ring sets on these 2 cyl, I'm gonna double the steel ring up top. Maybe she'll hold.
 

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Something is wrong. Can you get picture of bore? Were the injectors ever loose?
Have you watched pressure on a scanner? Have you been in your high pressure pump or is it an Adrenaline or other?
Can you get picture of offending injectors?
Check cup heights.
Measure from top edge of bore down to the top of the cups on multiple bores.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I can get pictures of the bore up later today, if not tonight.
I'll post pics of the injectors soon as well.

The icp runs 480ish at idle, ipr is 11-13%, stock 17deg hpop from a remanufactured international motor. Will pull up close to 2k driving, but drops down to 1300 or so with ipr maxing after 1/2 throttle, in all tunes. I have seen it spike higher after letting off of a hard run.
I have not measured cup heighths, will do that tonight when I'm off work.
Thanks for the help!
 

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Hi, if a cup is not seated all the the way and the anaerobic sealer locks it in, the height is off and coolant will slip under the cup.That would be from a bad cup install but they can raise from loose injectors. The heat and pressure can push them up. Either one can give you a non seated injector and false torque reading. Do you get a puff of white smoke in the morning?
Are you positive there is not an old washer down in the bottom of cup?
Are you positive an old washer was concealed with carbon on an injector and you put a new one on?
Pictures will help me.
Do marks in head measure where to oring goes?
Wear marks or flat spots on injector body, like it may have been rattling in the cup for a while?
Straight edge hold down plate on injector.
Your pressure is fine, not some insane figure so we will figure it out.
Oring grooves free of any tiny sharp edges that might be cutting or nicking the orings?
The back up ring, you have that at the top, facing the valve covers?
I'll check back.
 

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Doubling up on the steel backup ring won't help on the top O-ring. They depend on thickness of the O-ring in relationship to the bore and the injector groove diameter.


If the top O-rings were leaking for a long time, the oil may have worn a slight groove in the cast iron bore that inhibits sealing. I know that leaking oil will definitely clean up any deposits.


Where did you get the injectors? Maybe someone has hacked them up by deepening the grooves on them, which would loosen the clearance on the O-rings.


Your running parameters (ICP and IPR) look OK. You said it runs like crap, but HPOP leaks usually just affect starting, not running.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Truck actually runs decent, until you get past approx 1/2 throttle, then falls on its face and ipr drops way to low, at idle and easy throttle it's way better with the new sticks.

There are grooves where the oring would sit in the injector bore yes, but the old injectors had not leaked like this, I re ringed them 20k miles ago chasing a ghost that ended up being a intermittent electrical problem with my idm wiring.

I've put the old injectors back in with new rings and have the same issues, so I'm confident it isn't injector related, I've also swapped holes and the leak did not follow the injector. I bought then from a friend that pulled them from his low mileage replacement motor when he upgraded sticks, they have 20k ish miles on them, and ran great in his truck.
I don't have good pics of the bore, but did snap one after pulling the injector at one point, probably 70 miles driven from the point of install.


I've also got pics of the injector, I'll post in just a minute.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)



My Internet at work is seriously lacking, most my pictures I can't get to upload easily, so it might be a few hours till I have more up.

I'm confident there isn't a 2nd crush ring, 8 came out. I put a straight edge over the injector selonoids and they appear to be even, but maybe I should check again and a little more carefully.

O rings are coming out in perfect shape as well, no marks or nicks. At the advice of another mechanic I used a brake cylinder hone to hone the injector bore, still same effect.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Has anyone seen the upper cast in bore wear out on these trucks? I'm wondering if I shouldn't just grab up a used head, go threw it and put in new cups etc, and swap the whole thing out. I'd hate to waste time and money on doing cups just to have to same issue. I'm going to try to get to the shop and measure the depth of the cups in a hour or so.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·



This is the injector that came out I'm 99% sure, there is a small rub mark not pictured, it's towards to "top" face of the injector, not much rubbed off, just a little more polished then the rest is all.
 

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So I would measure down to that wear mark in head to make sure the oring sits there. The second photo down look like a spot on the injector that looks like it was rattling.
The injector should not be black past the copper washer. That a sign it was not sealing at the combustion chamber.
Measure down to top of cups and check for extra washers.
Pull the orings and double check grooves for tiny sharp pieces or edges.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Straight edge shows about .010 difference in height between cyl 2 and 4, gonna go ahead and overnight cups and the rental tools to fix from clay at riff raff, I'm 90% sure something is wrong with the cups. If not turns out to be the heada, I'll still need tool to install new cups in the used heads I would buy.

All 16 of my injectors have this mark on them, I thought it was normal?

 

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Better picture, it's ok.
So the cup heights are different? Are non leaking, the same height, right?
Do leaking bores have cup heights inconsistent with the non leaking cylinders?
You will need a bore brush to clean out old anaerobic sealer.
Are you buying the tool? If so go with Rosewood's with the cups and seller as a pkg.
Riff Raffs is ridiculously time consuming and tedious.
Highly recommend Rosewood but if not at least that design.
It's cheaper as well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
I'll look into rosewood, I generally buy my parts fro. Riff raff cause they are close and shipping is fast and cheap.

The tops of all the injector cups are not square as I think they should be, almost appear wavy when measuring, but the 2 bad cylinders are worse, I don't have access to real high quality measuring tools or I would post up actual numbers. With all injectors installed and properly torqued, the injectors themselves show a .010 variance, with the 2 leaking ones being high. Nothing else shows to them bot seating, except injector cups, though it's sure weird they went out so fast, maybe my torque wrench isn't calibrated right, I'll be having it tested or buying a new one asap.

Thanks for all the help so far! I was about at my wits end with this truck. Almost traded it for a v10, but parts are still cheaper then payments right now, and I've got a ton of new parts on this truck

Just looked at rosewood, I was going to just rent to tool from riffraff, not in the funds to buy it, and I've only got 1 other friend with a 7.3, so it'd end up sitting alot.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Never thought about the dremel, I've got one to use.
I'll probably get a set of bore brushes to, they might prove handy to have around for the low cost. I have the digital calipers, but they are a cheap set, that I don't trust to much. I was spoiled with high end calipers when I was building nuke control rods lol
 

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Hope this headache clears up for ya mate. :hushed:

Is injector work as hard and complicated as it sounds regarding how exact the proceadures and special skills / tools have to be?

I just paid a good three grand & some change to have all new bigger injectors, new cups & GPs and other stuff done earlier this year. The $3400 or whatever it was, at least that much was just for the injector work.

Huge differance in truck performance afterwards. It's a 97 with near 190k mi.
 
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