I am going to be installing some 250 hybrids from Swamps this weekend. I have a stock turbo, stock fuel, stock oil, and no intercooler. How much trouble am I in for? I know I shouldn't push the turbo much past 30-35lbs, but will that be almost instant? I can't wait, but Im a little scared at the same time.
Installing 250 hybrids
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It seems like NIT is running those same injectors maybe he will chime in and let you know.
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Close, but I think "Nit" or Craigs are 200 Hybrids, but still a darn good comparison!
I'm running the Mini-Me (MM's are 240cc) which I sent to SWAMP to recondition, and he made them into 250's, and they work darn fine in my truck!
There again, I have the aftermarket downpipe, open air, IDM mod etc. (check my sig) and TS programming that is now 4+ years old, and I'm right around the 400 RWHP mark, and still have the stock turbo and fuel system. More air is definitely better, which will be my next mod...one day. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Several folks have gotten 500+ RWHP with this size of Hybrid injector with the SD HPOP in the past, so it just takes tweaking of the mods to get that final result...along with a good fuel system and turbo of course.
With todays technology in programming, and with these aftermarket HPOP's and turbo's, hitting 500+ RWHP should be quite possible I would think!
Alot depends on how much you want to spend, and how much real wheel HP (safe) HP you want! You can of course go to drugs, and obtain even higher results, but many have broken things doing that too!
Overall, the 250cc Hybrids work very well in the OBS trucks, although as mentioned, you do need to have supporting modifications and proper programming to obtain a good result. Also having a good "tow" or "economy" setting will give you decent "MPG" results as well!
Nothing to be nervous about with these injectors, as you will only gain as you add mods! Results won't be as noticeable with a stock truck, and my opinion would be to add gauges (very important) as with the additional fuel its easy to get your EGT's extremely high quite easily...especially if you don't have an intercooler!
With large injectors, you watch your Pyrometer...and keep them in check with your right foot on the throttle! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/phoney.gif
Dale
It seems like NIT is running those same injectors maybe he will chime in and let you know.
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Close, but I think "Nit" or Craigs are 200 Hybrids, but still a darn good comparison!
I'm running the Mini-Me (MM's are 240cc) which I sent to SWAMP to recondition, and he made them into 250's, and they work darn fine in my truck!
There again, I have the aftermarket downpipe, open air, IDM mod etc. (check my sig) and TS programming that is now 4+ years old, and I'm right around the 400 RWHP mark, and still have the stock turbo and fuel system. More air is definitely better, which will be my next mod...one day. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Several folks have gotten 500+ RWHP with this size of Hybrid injector with the SD HPOP in the past, so it just takes tweaking of the mods to get that final result...along with a good fuel system and turbo of course.
With todays technology in programming, and with these aftermarket HPOP's and turbo's, hitting 500+ RWHP should be quite possible I would think!
Alot depends on how much you want to spend, and how much real wheel HP (safe) HP you want! You can of course go to drugs, and obtain even higher results, but many have broken things doing that too!
Overall, the 250cc Hybrids work very well in the OBS trucks, although as mentioned, you do need to have supporting modifications and proper programming to obtain a good result. Also having a good "tow" or "economy" setting will give you decent "MPG" results as well!
Nothing to be nervous about with these injectors, as you will only gain as you add mods! Results won't be as noticeable with a stock truck, and my opinion would be to add gauges (very important) as with the additional fuel its easy to get your EGT's extremely high quite easily...especially if you don't have an intercooler!
With large injectors, you watch your Pyrometer...and keep them in check with your right foot on the throttle! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/phoney.gif
Dale
Thanks for the responses. I just got home from Salt Lake with little sleep, but I think Im going to install them in a while. My chip is still in the mail so I will be running them with stock programming tonight. I should see some improvement over stock with the enlarge nozzles and 530 p&b.
powerstroke2000,
are you running headstuds with those 250cc injectors? If not how long have you been running them with stock headbolts. I have a set of swamps 250's sitting in the basement that i havent installed yet because im afraid ill blow a headgasket. Im running a hx50 so the backpressure should be less than that of your stocker. Id like to have them in for TS open house to get a dyno run, but im just worried about the headgaskets.
Thanks
Thomas
are you running headstuds with those 250cc injectors? If not how long have you been running them with stock headbolts. I have a set of swamps 250's sitting in the basement that i havent installed yet because im afraid ill blow a headgasket. Im running a hx50 so the backpressure should be less than that of your stocker. Id like to have them in for TS open house to get a dyno run, but im just worried about the headgaskets.
Thanks
Thomas
I don't have headstuds yet, but I don't plan on pushing it much over 30 puounds of boost until I can do it safely. Cylander pressures also play a big role in lifting the heads off, so programming is crucial. I will let you know how everything goes in a couple of days. My chip is on it's way, but the injectors are installed. I can already tell a difference they feel about like babys with a chip maybe a little less. They are just going to be insane with a chip!! I'm worried about the turbo self destructing, and the egt's getting out of hand to quick. If I were you I'd throw em in and have a setting on your chip as close to stock as you can get it.
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859 Posts
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with stock fuel system i dont think you'll have to worry about studs, but you will still be able to punish your turbo at will.
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Sorry Luke, I thought I'd be safe also but last year I lifted a head with a stock turbo and a stock fuel system and a set of Hyb 250's. Of course I was Drag racing at the time /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif....
JIM
with stock fuel system i dont think you'll have to worry about studs, but you will still be able to punish your turbo at will.
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Sorry Luke, I thought I'd be safe also but last year I lifted a head with a stock turbo and a stock fuel system and a set of Hyb 250's. Of course I was Drag racing at the time /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif....
JIM
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1,810 Posts
No head studs here, as the stock head bolts seem to be holding well...so far. But then, I rarely punish my truck like many here, as it will never hit the track, as mine has mainly been built to "tow".
To tell the truth, it's a rare even for my throttle to be even near the floor....but the power is "there" if needed.
I suppose you could say I baby my truck, but then I haven't had a major breakdown either.
I have popped a couple of intercooler boots while towing hard on hills, but that seems to have been taken care of now.
For those planning on hitting the track, I'd advise them to use headbolts, but for those wanting to just use your truck to "work" for you with "towing" in mind, you shouldn't need to get up too high in boost, thus resulting in the head pressures to blow a gasket.
More than likely, without the proper programming and other supporting mods, you aren't getting the full potential out of this size of injector anyway. They do lay down a good foundation for possible future upgrades though! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif
Dale
To tell the truth, it's a rare even for my throttle to be even near the floor....but the power is "there" if needed.
I suppose you could say I baby my truck, but then I haven't had a major breakdown either.
I have popped a couple of intercooler boots while towing hard on hills, but that seems to have been taken care of now.
For those planning on hitting the track, I'd advise them to use headbolts, but for those wanting to just use your truck to "work" for you with "towing" in mind, you shouldn't need to get up too high in boost, thus resulting in the head pressures to blow a gasket.
More than likely, without the proper programming and other supporting mods, you aren't getting the full potential out of this size of injector anyway. They do lay down a good foundation for possible future upgrades though! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif
Dale
Just got the chip installed today and it is pretty wild. It is good to know that the cp's are higher at low rpm's. I think I am running out of fuel, I can only get 25 lbs when the boost guage tries to wrap around in a split second. Luke I know you were running out of fuel with your new injectors what were your symptums? Can't wait for big oil, h2e, intercooler, fuel system, head studs..........and the list goes on.
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Just got the chip installed today and it is pretty wild. It is good to know that the cp's are higher at low rpm's. I think I am running out of fuel, I can only get 25 lbs when the boost guage tries to wrap around in a split second. Luke I know you were running out of fuel with your new injectors what were your symptums? Can't wait for big oil, h2e, intercooler, fuel system, head studs..........and the list goes on.
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I wasnt running out of fuel, my fuel system is adequate for my inj. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Just got the chip installed today and it is pretty wild. It is good to know that the cp's are higher at low rpm's. I think I am running out of fuel, I can only get 25 lbs when the boost guage tries to wrap around in a split second. Luke I know you were running out of fuel with your new injectors what were your symptums? Can't wait for big oil, h2e, intercooler, fuel system, head studs..........and the list goes on.
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I wasnt running out of fuel, my fuel system is adequate for my inj. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
What I mean by this is, that the CP are pretty high down low adn that there is a high pressure on teh rods, at lower rpm teh motor doesnt have as much reciprecating? mass to push thru teh CP, higher RPM can take more CP because it si going faster.
I am not real good at explainign this by typing it, maybe someone else that is better at words can help me out here.
Basically too much CP for a given RPM
I am not real good at explainign this by typing it, maybe someone else that is better at words can help me out here.
Basically too much CP for a given RPM
[ QUOTE ]
What I mean by this is, that the CP are pretty high down low adn that there is a high pressure on teh rods, at lower rpm teh motor doesnt have as much reciprecating? mass to push thru teh CP, higher RPM can take more CP because it si going faster.
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Very interesting point here Nit. I think /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/phoney.gif what you mean here is the force on the rods, not the CP's. CP's are going to be related to volumetric efficiency (VE) and fuel injection parameters. VE is going to increase with boost, for the most part, and fuel injection can be wherever the computer tells it. BUT, load (which is the important thing) on the rods is a combination of inertial loading and pressure loading. On the compression stroke, imagine having no CP's, like just revving it in neutral, the load on the rod is a result of trying to accelerate and decelerate the piston, which can actually be a lotttt of force. Now when you are putting the engine under load you have cylinder pressure that is trying to slow the piston down. Although this is a high force it is actually assisting the rod (i.e. trying to slow the piston down) so they cancel out to some degree. In a non-turbo application the highest rod loading is usually high rpm, low VE / CP, where the rod is solely responsible for stopping the rod from shooting out the top of the cylinder. In a turbo-diesel it's a bit different because of the fuel injection but obviously the same physical principles still apply. However, it is much easier for the CP's to just totally overload the rod at any point in the RPM or load spectrum and bust a rod. Hopefully that is in line with what you were trying to say NIT /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smokin.gif
Steve
What I mean by this is, that the CP are pretty high down low adn that there is a high pressure on teh rods, at lower rpm teh motor doesnt have as much reciprecating? mass to push thru teh CP, higher RPM can take more CP because it si going faster.
[/ QUOTE ]
Very interesting point here Nit. I think /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/phoney.gif what you mean here is the force on the rods, not the CP's. CP's are going to be related to volumetric efficiency (VE) and fuel injection parameters. VE is going to increase with boost, for the most part, and fuel injection can be wherever the computer tells it. BUT, load (which is the important thing) on the rods is a combination of inertial loading and pressure loading. On the compression stroke, imagine having no CP's, like just revving it in neutral, the load on the rod is a result of trying to accelerate and decelerate the piston, which can actually be a lotttt of force. Now when you are putting the engine under load you have cylinder pressure that is trying to slow the piston down. Although this is a high force it is actually assisting the rod (i.e. trying to slow the piston down) so they cancel out to some degree. In a non-turbo application the highest rod loading is usually high rpm, low VE / CP, where the rod is solely responsible for stopping the rod from shooting out the top of the cylinder. In a turbo-diesel it's a bit different because of the fuel injection but obviously the same physical principles still apply. However, it is much easier for the CP's to just totally overload the rod at any point in the RPM or load spectrum and bust a rod. Hopefully that is in line with what you were trying to say NIT /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smokin.gif
Steve
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