[Abuckhunter]

Hello Everybody, I have a 03 ford f 250 4x4 Super Duty diesel 138000
well a couple days ago I found that it don`t want to restart once it is hot, had a friend put it on a screen and it said no high oil pressure, so he told me it could be a leaking injector, or the high pressure pump, or a half dozen other things, all big bucks, that a retired old man on just S/S really don`t have, so I was wondering if there is a way to do some test to see what it is, or just keep changing parts till you hit the bad part, he did say it sound like it had a miss when I pulled in,???
So anybody know how things can be tested and not just changed,
Thank Anyone That has any idea, Thank You

P.S. I forgot to say when it cools down it will start right up and run like a deer.

 

[jw75]

Good Morning, I'm fighting the same thing with my truck. I have an '06 with almost the same amount of miles on it. I pulled the IPR checked it and cleaned it. Which that wasn't the problem. Next I'm going to do a pressure test on the oil system. If you go on you tube there are a lot of videos out there on how to perform the test and what to listen for.

 

[Ford06]

Definitely has the earmarks of a high pressure oil leak. With the oil cold and thick, the starter can build more than the 500psi required to fire the injectors. When it is hot the thin oil leaks faster than the starter can keep up with, so no start. Once the truck fires, the HPOP can overcome the leak, but the limited RPMs if the starter cannot build enough pressure to fire it.

First you need a way to monitor your ICP pressure and your IPR pressure and duty cycle. It could be a simple as a stuck IPR valve, or it could require a HPOP pump replacement. The early models through later '04 had a different pump that could lose a ball plug out the side of it and lose pressure.

 

[Abuckhunter]

Thanks so much for you help guys, I just want and talk to a guy at a shop, and he said sounds like a bad injector, he said he would change all 8 of them for $ 2568.00 I said but what if there is only one leaking, he said NO always change all 8, so I said I would get back to him, Thanks men, have a good weekend.

 

[TKOPerformance]

You can air test the HPO system for leaks. Otherwise you're playing guess the part. The IPR under the turbo had a habit of failing on the early trucks. If its bad replace the wiring pigtail too. You can try just unplugging it when it won't start and see if it starts. If so the IPR is bad, if not the IPR is good and the issue is somewhere else.

The HPOP on the early trucks is not that durable, and pretty failure prone. But, I'd make sure that's your issue before replacing it because they are expensive, and there have been some reports of remans that were bad out of the box. If I had to replace one I'd go with one from the Dieselsite.

 

[dillon134]

You can air test the HPO system for leaks. Otherwise you're playing guess the part. The IPR under the turbo had a habit of failing on the early trucks. If its bad replace the wiring pigtail too. You can try just unplugging it when it won't start and see if it starts. If so the IPR is bad, if not the IPR is good and the issue is somewhere else.

The HPOP on the early trucks is not that durable, and pretty failure prone. But, I'd make sure that's your issue before replacing it because they are expensive, and there have been some reports of remans that were bad out of the box. If I had to replace one I'd go with one from the Dieselsite.

TKO,


Don't you mean unplugging the ICP Sensor instead of the IPR? I didn't know that the engine would start if the IPR was unplugged.


Just double checking.

 

[TKOPerformance]

Yes, sorry, it is the ICP you want to unplug.

 

[tregrad]

so i have this same issue and let me get this right. unplugging the icp sensor while hot and trying to start and it still not starting means that the IPR is good? and the leak is more than likely in the hpop? or somewhere else?

 

[dillon134]

so i have this same issue and let me get this right. unplugging the icp sensor while hot and trying to start and it still not starting means that the IPR is good? and the leak is more than likely in the hpop? or somewhere else?

Unplugging the ICP Sensor will only tell you if the ICP Sensor is bad, not the IPR. The idea here is to eliminate easy and cheap things first. The ICP Sensor is easy to change if the 6.0 is a newer and located on the valve cover. It's more difficult on older 6.0's because it is under the Turbo, and close to the IPR.

 

[tregrad]

unplugged the icp sensor, didnt start.
removed the ipr, no tear in the screen, little dirt. cleaned it out and there was no dirt inside.
should i put it all back together and do an air test or just put the ipr in and do air test?

mine is newer with icp in the front.

 

[dillon134]

When you say, didn't start, what specifically do you mean? Do you have a scanner? Need to know what ICP value is. Assume less than 500.

 

[tregrad]

Thank you dillon, yes I have a scan gauge II, took video of it starting cold, and not starting hot.

hot no start, KOEO, ipr 14.8, icp 0. Cranking, IPR 84.37 and ICP 227

cold start, KOEO, ipr 14.8, icp 0. Cranking, IPR 84.7 then went down to 31.6 and ICP 439 then jumped to 1000+

I also tried to startit with the ICP sensor unplugged and the IPR was at 14.8 the whole time, it never jumped to 85 to get it started. and strangely enough the ICP reading was 656 even though it was unplugged.

 

[TKOPerformance]

Your IPR numbers are about max, indicating a massive leak somewhere. You are also not hitting 500psi worth of ICP, which is the minimum needed to allow the injectors to fire. On an '03 I would probably suspect a failed HPOP first. Its possible the IPR has failed, and you could try swapping that first (use an OEM Motorcraft one, not a reman or aftermarket the web is awash with stories of these not working out of the box). If the IPR doesn't fix the issue you have a spare, which can be valuable testing these trucks. Unfortunately I don't know of a way to bench test the HPOP, but the '03 oil system is simpler than the later trucks, so there are few cheap parts to fail (no dummy plugs, no STC fitting). I would invest in a Dieselsite HPOP. I've heard nothing but good things about them, and in contrast I've heard of reman HPOPs form Ford that were no good out of the box.

The idea behind unplugging the ICP is that the PCM knows that a 0 IPR value is basically impossible, even with a massive leak or failed parts. So when it sees 0 it substitutes 656 as a plug value to allow the truck to start. IPR is adjusted based on ICP, so that's why that number also didn't move.

 

[dillon134]

Agree with everything TKO just said. I had problems starting my 05 Excursion (older 6.0 with problematic HPOP). First thing I did was order a new IPR from Auto Nation - White Bear Lake. They had the best prices and it came complete with o-rings and a nice upgraded screen. This new IPR didn't fix my problem but the old one was nasty so I didn't mind buying the new one.

Second thing I did was to install a new HPOP. This did fix my problem. Fingers crossed that I didn't just jinx myself.

 

[tregrad]

any tricks on geting the hpop cover back on? im about to break out the .12 gauge and have a good time with this %#!*ing thing lol.
i went ahead and got a new pump as my ipr is pretty new and my dumb ass tried to save some money put a used pump in a few years ago.
as soon as this thing is fixed im buying a 1972 blazer, sick and tired of all teh crap that can go wrong with this thing. probably not im just pissed right now because i cant get the cover back on.
I have an after market egr cooler also, seems to be making it harder
thanks for your patience with me.

 

[TKOPerformance]

I think two bolts under the cooler are a real PITA. Crow's foot wrench maybe, or bend up something. When in doubt fabricate a tool that works.

 

[dillon134]

It is definitely a struggle to get it off and then back on. As I recall, you can't get the left rear bolts that are under the EGR Cooler back in once the cover is in place. You have to place the bolt(s) into the holes on the cover and pray that they don't fall out and into the HPOP cavity as you attempt to twist the cover into its proper place. Again, check out DIESELTECHRON on youtube. He has a great video on this procedure.

 

[PHYRMN]

Just some FYI, some 03's and 04's had a history of the HPOP discharge tube rubbing the HPOP cover and causing a leak there. I had a leaky discharge tube which I believe caused my premature HPOP failure. Ford or International, don't know which, came out with an updated HPOP cover for these years that allows more room between the discharge tube and the cover. The high IPR value is a clue that the system is trying to compensate for low High Pressure Oil reading.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/l8t769irfp...2014.28.44.jpg

https://www.dropbox.com/s/fxvrghnk36...2014.28.30.jpg

 

[TKOPerformance]

Yes, FYI, 85% IPR is the max value. The IPR is a duty cycle solenoid and cannot be "on" 100% of the time or it will burn up. So 85% is the maximum "on" time. In a properly running system you should never see IPR values anywhere close to 85%. A typical range would be more like 15-35%, higher at high demand, lower at idle, etc.

 

[tregrad]

thank you all for the help on my issue it is greatly appreciated.
a little trick for the future hpop cove issues..... I bought new bolts and had about 4 of the threads ground down and it went in like Flynn, no smearing the gasket sealer where the steel block meats the aluminum so i got an awesome seal and there was plenty of thread left to get good torque on them.
that being said, i got the turbo stand on, turbo on and was working my way out of the engine compartment when i noticed the little degaus tube that goes on to the radiator nipple busted off the radiator GRRRRR. I YouTubed it and some guy had what i thought to be a pretty good fix: drilled a half inch hole in it (radiator) and JB Welded an air hose nipple and screwed it into the radiator lol we will see if that works, the nipple couldn't be screwed in by hand so it seemed to thread itself using a ratchet.
The trimmed down bolts worked like a CHARM!! and as a former iron worker that was my idea lol.
i have to wait till tomorrow to finish so will get back tomorrow.

on a side note, the old hpop side bearing was protruding out past the case of the pump at least 3/16" and the new one had the bearing embedded past the case. seems like i was about to lose the bearing eh?

again THANKS, cross our fingers....