K&N Stock Replacement Filter
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I still don't get why people want to mess with the air filter on the 6.0L (and now the 6.4L). Donaldson did an amazing job making a massive, free-flowing, filter that catches very tiny particles. (Ford designed a terribly hard to operate case for it on the 6.0L, but it still functions properly...) I don't think you could possibly find a filter, that fits under the hood, that will flow more air than the stock filter.
Unless, of course, you're willing to have it not filter as well, i.e. let dirt into your engine. And why would anyone want that?
Duncan
Unless, of course, you're willing to have it not filter as well, i.e. let dirt into your engine. And why would anyone want that?
Duncan
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Just my opinion but I would not use a K&N on a diesel I had one on a 7.3 and kept getting high silicone ( dirt ) reading on oil tests until I got rid of it.
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Let's see, we go out and buy a $40k+++ pickup truck equipped with a very sophisticated, computer controlled engine that not only makes great power, great reliability, and controls emissions. Then we go and look for a cotton gauze mesh wetted with red oil to protect our $15,000 diesel engine because we think that the highly efficient air filter that came with the truck does not "flow" enough air. Am I missing something? Has anyone proved that the factory air filter does not do a terrific job or in any way restricts airflow to the engine when it is using the stock fuel injectors(you know these things cost over $350 a piece?). I think somebody is Coo Coo for Cocoa Puffs. That engine or turbocharger crap out due to dirty air, you are going to be one sad puppy.
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WOW!! Are there guys in here actually waiting to pounce on people cause they ask a question?
I have had great luck out of my K&N so far. I have one in my 7.3 and picked up 2 miles to the gallon. On the other hand I don't get my oil tested. You have a very valid point.
Has anyone here actually seen or know someone who has had an engine damaged due to an aftermarket filter? I posed this question before on another site and got no feedback.
I have had great luck out of my K&N so far. I have one in my 7.3 and picked up 2 miles to the gallon. On the other hand I don't get my oil tested. You have a very valid point.
Has anyone here actually seen or know someone who has had an engine damaged due to an aftermarket filter? I posed this question before on another site and got no feedback.
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I have seen blade erosion on the turbocharge that was attributed to poor filtering of an aftermarket gauze type filter. Just seems s o back-asswards to remove the great Donaldson filter and install a 1970 tech very questionable aftermarket filter. I have never seen any proof or talked to anyone who honestly told me of any improvements. Only thing they almost all stated was more intake noise, which some people falsely acquaint to increased performance. I guess I am not a gambling man.
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415 Posts
When I first started getting the bad reports it was recommended to take off the filter housing and wipe the inside of the housing post filter with a white paper towel and see what I got. I did and I took the K&N out then. The next report the silcone level wa cut in half and the next change it was down below normal level.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif I also thought that the comments made were a little rough but that also is just my opinion. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif I also thought that the comments made were a little rough but that also is just my opinion. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif
I ran a K&N on my 7.3 for about a month and then read (here) that they could be a problem. I took it out and did a "white rag" test on the intake post filter and found some significant dirt. I put a stock filter back in and repeated the test a month later and there was almost no dust/dirt on the rag. Not a scientific test, but enuf to convince me that any small gain in air flow was not worth the potential consequences of dusting the motor.
mountie, I use the K&N on our 7.3L, use Amsoil in the engine and have the oil tested every 6 months. I've never had a high silicone (dirt) reading from the tests. But, I do carefully maintain the K&N.
In fairness to those supporting the Ford OEM filter on the 6.4L, since there are so many variables that need to be correctly managed on this new engine, we'll probably stick with the OEM version on our 2008.
Dave
In fairness to those supporting the Ford OEM filter on the 6.4L, since there are so many variables that need to be correctly managed on this new engine, we'll probably stick with the OEM version on our 2008.
Dave
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I do appreciate the feedback I'm getting from you guys. Based on what I got back I think I'll stick with the stock filter. I'd rather have a long lasting engine than a slight improvement in miles per gallon. Thanks agian everyone.
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In the heavy truck industry, Donaldson is the major air cleaner manufacturer. The element on the 6.0 and 6.4 is a design used for most late model heavy engines. Very efficient to say the least.
I might point out too that in the heavy truck industry, if the engine is dusted, it's your baby. No warranty period. Another reason I stayed with stock air cleaners on my 6.0's and will do so on my 6.4
Expect to see things you haven't seen before in little trucks where warranty issues are concerned on the 6.4. Things like fuel analysis, oil analysis, etc. These are things Cummins,Cat, and International have done for some time. Nothing new, just insuring the guidelines are being followed.
I do appreciate the feedback I'm getting from you guys. Based on what I got back I think I'll stick with the stock filter. I'd rather have a long lasting engine than a slight improvement in miles per gallon. Thanks agian everyone.
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In the heavy truck industry, Donaldson is the major air cleaner manufacturer. The element on the 6.0 and 6.4 is a design used for most late model heavy engines. Very efficient to say the least.
I might point out too that in the heavy truck industry, if the engine is dusted, it's your baby. No warranty period. Another reason I stayed with stock air cleaners on my 6.0's and will do so on my 6.4
Expect to see things you haven't seen before in little trucks where warranty issues are concerned on the 6.4. Things like fuel analysis, oil analysis, etc. These are things Cummins,Cat, and International have done for some time. Nothing new, just insuring the guidelines are being followed.
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5,464 Posts
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Has anyone here actually seen or know someone who has had an engine damaged due to an aftermarket filter? I posed this question before on another site and got no feedback.
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I too have seen turbo compressor wheels damaged by dirt. I have tested two that had excessive crankcase pressure that were equipped with either the red or the green filters. Further complicating the issue, I recently had an F350 farm/horse hauler truck in that had a green filter that was plugged causing it to suck air (and dirt) past the seal. My guess is that many people don't realize these filters require maintenance? The one's that do also end up oiling up the MAF sensor.
But I recommend nothing but the stock Donaldson filter: 1 micron filtration and holds more than 3 Lbs of dirt! They only suck wind if you fill 'em up or get them wet. Anything else is just a bug screen!
Has anyone here actually seen or know someone who has had an engine damaged due to an aftermarket filter? I posed this question before on another site and got no feedback.
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I too have seen turbo compressor wheels damaged by dirt. I have tested two that had excessive crankcase pressure that were equipped with either the red or the green filters. Further complicating the issue, I recently had an F350 farm/horse hauler truck in that had a green filter that was plugged causing it to suck air (and dirt) past the seal. My guess is that many people don't realize these filters require maintenance? The one's that do also end up oiling up the MAF sensor.
But I recommend nothing but the stock Donaldson filter: 1 micron filtration and holds more than 3 Lbs of dirt! They only suck wind if you fill 'em up or get them wet. Anything else is just a bug screen!
'05 6.0... 120,000 kms..... 8 inches of crankcase pressure AT IDLE.... turbocharger hooped.... extreme cylinder ridge.... Filter of choice = "open weave".
'06 6.0.... 70,000 kms.... significant turbocharger damage.... concerns - low power output.... Ford wont pay for a new turbo (they will hand it back to me on a platter).... filter manufacturer wont pay for a new turbo (our filters don't do that).... customer wont pay for the turbo - and that makes me an a$$hole...
If the debris your intake system faces is large enough in diameter, even an old shop rag might be an adequate filter.... Where I live, an open weave filter is asking for a denied warranty claim....
FWIW, the aftermarket is hell bent on selling their fancy system. If they don't, they don't make money... "They" will tell you that "their" filter wont void the warranty offered by someone else.... That someone else will not have a third party dictate their warranty terms.....
Now... I do not personally know any of the people that manufacture, design or distribute these filters.... I harbour no ill will against these people. I have no desire to see them fail in the marketplace.
However, a dusted engine is a sure sign that either the filter was inadequate (that is between the filter manufacturer and the customer) or the filter was improperly serviced (and that is between the servicing shop and the customer).
If anyone has had good "luck" with an open weave filter on a diesel, I applaud them and remind them that it does have a lot to do with "luck". This will not hold true for everyone...
What also has to be realized is that the process of dusting an engine is not an overnight deal..... If you fit an aftemarket filter today, you wont wake up to a dusted engine in the morning. What will happen is that your performance will slowly degrade... very slowly degrade..... One day, it will become bothersome.... Someone like me will investigate and have to tell the owner that the engine is toast.
Wet stacking - dusting... everyone is expecting a visible, overnight change... it doesn't work like that. The effects are cummulative and can take a long time to manifest themselves... and they will....
'06 6.0.... 70,000 kms.... significant turbocharger damage.... concerns - low power output.... Ford wont pay for a new turbo (they will hand it back to me on a platter).... filter manufacturer wont pay for a new turbo (our filters don't do that).... customer wont pay for the turbo - and that makes me an a$$hole...
If the debris your intake system faces is large enough in diameter, even an old shop rag might be an adequate filter.... Where I live, an open weave filter is asking for a denied warranty claim....
FWIW, the aftermarket is hell bent on selling their fancy system. If they don't, they don't make money... "They" will tell you that "their" filter wont void the warranty offered by someone else.... That someone else will not have a third party dictate their warranty terms.....
Now... I do not personally know any of the people that manufacture, design or distribute these filters.... I harbour no ill will against these people. I have no desire to see them fail in the marketplace.
However, a dusted engine is a sure sign that either the filter was inadequate (that is between the filter manufacturer and the customer) or the filter was improperly serviced (and that is between the servicing shop and the customer).
If anyone has had good "luck" with an open weave filter on a diesel, I applaud them and remind them that it does have a lot to do with "luck". This will not hold true for everyone...
What also has to be realized is that the process of dusting an engine is not an overnight deal..... If you fit an aftemarket filter today, you wont wake up to a dusted engine in the morning. What will happen is that your performance will slowly degrade... very slowly degrade..... One day, it will become bothersome.... Someone like me will investigate and have to tell the owner that the engine is toast.
Wet stacking - dusting... everyone is expecting a visible, overnight change... it doesn't work like that. The effects are cummulative and can take a long time to manifest themselves... and they will....
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2,226 Posts
My K&N didn't do a very good job of catching dirt and send nate a pm he goes by DSTRBD he has a shop and is up on the 6.4 I would try him first.
I think this is his site
www.performancetruckproducts.com
I think this is his site
www.performancetruckproducts.com
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356 Posts
I agree with Dave!
I get tired of you guys knocking K&N. Yes the drop-in on the 7.3L is a POS. I've ran a FIPK2 on my '03 for the last 3 years with NO high silicone and my oil samples are at 10k miles. And I check my intake pipe with a white rag every time I clean my filter and I have yet to find any dirt.
On edit my point is that nothing is going to work correctly if it is not properly maintained, which I think is the biggest issue with this type of filter media.
Back on post....I would stick with the stock Donaldson unit on any 6.0L or 6.4L. They make a great filter for those trucks. If I was inclined to run a chip and upgrade the exhaust I would look at running an AFE intake system.
I get tired of you guys knocking K&N. Yes the drop-in on the 7.3L is a POS. I've ran a FIPK2 on my '03 for the last 3 years with NO high silicone and my oil samples are at 10k miles. And I check my intake pipe with a white rag every time I clean my filter and I have yet to find any dirt.
On edit my point is that nothing is going to work correctly if it is not properly maintained, which I think is the biggest issue with this type of filter media.
Back on post....I would stick with the stock Donaldson unit on any 6.0L or 6.4L. They make a great filter for those trucks. If I was inclined to run a chip and upgrade the exhaust I would look at running an AFE intake system.
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263 Posts
I used a k&n drop in on my 99 7.3l, installed at 2000 miles, never dusted boots, 104k at trade in, turbo wheel looked fine.
Put a k&N up to the light and you can see thru it. I run a dirt race car and with a k&n the bore is shot after 2 season or aprox 800 miles. We now use wix air filters and after 1600 miles the bore is still good. Sure a K&N makes power because it lets more air thru, but at the expense of engine wear. A k&N will filter better as it gets dirty because the small holes plug up.
one thing you could consider if you are nervous over a K&N is use an ISO 9001 certified system such as an S&B. I do not know if they make a dropin, only full air kits though.
ive heard great things from them. I currentl have an AFE state2 with progaurd 7 and have had no high readings (7.3, 35000 miles since intake swap). that being said, S&B will likely be my next cold air kit. I even seen them on a TV special once, maybe "truck tv" or something as they were featured for their manufacturing systems and stringent requirements. Also note, that many manufactures (AFE included) now have cold kits that use filters with no oil and are supposed to filter as good. The S&B system has been ISO tested which indicates a 3rd party test for cleaning effeciency. thts how I understand it at any rate...
ive heard great things from them. I currentl have an AFE state2 with progaurd 7 and have had no high readings (7.3, 35000 miles since intake swap). that being said, S&B will likely be my next cold air kit. I even seen them on a TV special once, maybe "truck tv" or something as they were featured for their manufacturing systems and stringent requirements. Also note, that many manufactures (AFE included) now have cold kits that use filters with no oil and are supposed to filter as good. The S&B system has been ISO tested which indicates a 3rd party test for cleaning effeciency. thts how I understand it at any rate...
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one thing you could consider if you are nervous over a K&N is use an ISO 9001 certified system such as an S&B. I do not know if they make a dropin, only full air kits though.
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ISO 9001 is a big deal in the manufacturing world. but IMO it just means you have good manufacturing standards and processes. You might be making a perfect pile of horse poo every time, but its still horse poo.
Again just my opinion. not saying its a bad system.
one thing you could consider if you are nervous over a K&N is use an ISO 9001 certified system such as an S&B. I do not know if they make a dropin, only full air kits though.
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ISO 9001 is a big deal in the manufacturing world. but IMO it just means you have good manufacturing standards and processes. You might be making a perfect pile of horse poo every time, but its still horse poo.
Again just my opinion. not saying its a bad system.
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