[dcostello]

The general data: 1997 E-350 with 7.3 the one in my signature but should not make a difference for this discussion.

So here it goes…. I am having a problem that seems like the contact points in the key cylinder or the cylinder’s housing are not getting a proper connection all of the time. Here is what is happening:

I will put the key in, turn the ignition on, wait for the “wait to start” light to go out, and then turn the key against the spring lock to engage the starter. At this point the lights on the dash do change (some go out/others come on) but the starter does not spin like it is not getting any electricity. Sometimes I have repeated the steps above and the starter goes, other times I have turned the key against the ignition lock in the start position for 5 or so seconds and then it seems like the contact points make connection and the starter turns over. Last night I tried it and held the key in the start position, beat on the steering column, and then it started.

So really late two nights ago, which was actually really early in the morning, I pulled the key cylinder, wiped off the contact points on the outside of the key cylinder and noticed a wire with a grey plastic piece and contact point was kind of sitting there hanging over the key cylinder housing. I cleaned that contact point and noticed a little grey tab/piece about 1/8” wide and ¼” long was broke off but sitting there. It looked to be how this wire connection was hooked on to the key cylinder housing. So being late I superglued the plastic piece inside the housing and to the rest of the grey plastic. Cleaned and put the connector back in place wrapping electrical tape around it for extra staying power. It was starting fine but now seems to be acting up again.

So here is my question; are there some other contact points or wiring connections I should be checking? Any other ideas on what the issue might be? I would like to get it fixed now before I am left stranded somewhere. Also, do any of the experts here know what that grey plastic and contact point/wire is called (or a part number) so I can get that ordered and replaced?
Thank you all ahead of time for looking at this post and giving suggestions.

Dan

 

[MikeL46]

Sounds more like a starter solenoid issue.

Mike

 

[KenManiac]

Wire on the bottom

That wire fell off on mine too, pretty sure it's only for the door dinger (dings when the door is open with the key in). I taped mine and left it unhooked. Check for voltage at the solenoid, as previously mentioned. Hook up a test light to the trigger terminal and turn the key to crank. It should light up if the ignition switch is working. It could also be the neutral safety switch, try starting it in neutral or jiggle the shift lever while in park.

 

[dcostello]

Thank you for the response, I have not tried to start in neutral but I did try to jiggle the shifter while in park and there was no change. I will look at the starter solenoid tonight but I did replace the ignition switch Friday night and no change. What I am testing now sporadically because of the sporadic nature of this issue is the linkage between the key switch and the ignition switch. The linkage is rather incased in metal but there seems to be a bit of play from the metal slider to what looks like a nylon/plastic connecting piece to the ignition switch. I have put pressure on the metal slider when it is not working and twice the starter engaged to start the van. It is so inconsistent that I am not sure if this is the culprit as of yet so I am still testing and will let you know. Is this a common problem? The van has over 150,000 miles so there may be thousands of key turns and linkage movements over this time.

Does anyone know how hard it is and the steps to replace these pieces that connect the key switch to the ignition switch within a tilt steering wheel?

Dan

 

[dansk]

Is your shifter loose? A lot of play? Could be the problem, easy fix.
Dann

 

[dcostello]

Is your shifter loose? A lot of play? Could be the problem, easy fix.
Dann

Yes but when I jiggle it there is no effect on the starting issue. I have more luck when hitting the linkage between the key ignition and the ignition switch.

Dan

 

[dcostello]

Sounds more like a starter solenoid issue.

Mike

Would someone please describe where the starter solenoid is or better yet proved a diagram or a link to a diagram.

Thank you,

Dan

 

[MikeL46]

Starter solenoid is basically an electrical switch. The signal from the key makes the solenoid move and then a copper bar inside touches two contacts to make the electricity flow to the starter. When the contacts get old (burned, pitted) they make intermittent contact. It just gets worse, although you can have good days or weeks.

In your case, I believe it is a separate part, a silver or black sorta round thing with a big wire from the battery, a big wire to the starter motor and a small wire from the key.

It should look like one of these:

Starter Solenoid - Auto Parts Warehouse

If you follow the big wire from the starter motor it should go straight to the solenoid. It is probably mounted on the cowl or fenderwell near the starter.

Good luck,

Mike

 

[drinkypoo]

Electricity is always connected to the starter.

The thing you are talking about is the starter (main) relay. It IS a solenoid relay, but then, so is the glow plug relay, and we don't call that a glow plug solenoid.

The SOLENOID is integrated into the starter, sometimes inline, sometimes alongside. It is switched by the starter main relay and it does two things; it connects the power from the battery which is always connected to the starter (a relay big enough to switch that is expensive, so it's not separate, so the starter power terminal is always a short risk) and it also engages the pinion with the flywheel. This is in fact supposed to happen first; the arm that pushes the pinion either pushes a plunger or activates a linkage which does it, which completes a circuit inside the actual "starter solenoid" to deliver power from the main terminal to the starter motor windings. The starter relay only energizes the starter motor windings.

From the service manual:
When the ignition switch is closed, current flows to coils P and H. As current flows in the coils of the switch, the plunger is pulled in and this causes the drive pinion to be pushed out into engagement with the flywheel ring gear. At the same time, the main solenoid contact (P1) closes and allows battery voltage to pass to the starter motor. When the P1 contact is closed, no current flows in coil P and the solenoid plunger is held in by coil H.

When the ignition switch is opened (after engine start-up), contact P1 opens, and the starter motor disengages and stops. The drive pinion is pulled out of engagement with the flywheel by the return spring in the main solenoid.

Of course, Ford in their wisdom makes it look like the ignition switch drives the solenoid directly, because they're cool like that. Or maybe you can blame it on Helm, Inc.? But this is the copy from the electronic edition.

 

[dcostello]

Ok, my transmission went out on the van so I have been running that thread for a while and all seems to be in and working. For some reason while the transmission was out of the van I never pursued the starting issue. Anyway, when trying to start the van after the transmission issue I seem to still have the starting issue. So here is what I have done and I want your input on what is left to do.

1. Replaced the starter 3 months ago
2. Replaced the ignition switch in the steering column
3. Replaced the solenoid behind the battery
4. Replaced the solenoid on the starter

Now, when reinstalling my transmission and trying to adjust the Manual Lever Position Sensor (MLPS) aka Neutral Safety Switch I noticed that when I moved my column shifter I would get it to start. After repositioning it back to what it was, my starting issues went back to its sporadic nature where it does not matter if I move the column shifter or not. Sometimes it works and others it does not.

I am going to replace the MLPS and see if that cures the problem but is there anything else that it might be in this chain of things for it to start or not to start?

Thank you all for the help.

Dan

 

[dcostello]

After driving the van for a few weeks the MLPS seems to have fixed the issue.

Thank you all for all the help!!!

Dan