[repp]

Knock.…Black Smoke….Dead II

My 63k mile 2003 stranded me a second time after knocking and black smoke. Two thousand miles ago (9-08) the dealer replaced #3 and #4 injectors, out of warranty with some help from Ford, and installed 06E17 reflash. Began using fuel additive per the dealers recommendation.

Mainly used for long trips, no stop and go, idling or towing miles with no previous problems. Serviced every 7500 miles with Dello 400 and aftermarket filters. I cleaned the EGR valve 100 miles ago but it really didn’t need it.

Why are injectors failing?

Thanks

 

[OMCUSNR]

My 63k mile 2003 stranded me a second time after knocking and black smoke. Two thousand miles ago (9-08) the dealer replaced #3 and #4 injectors, out of warranty with some help from Ford, and installed 06E17 reflash. Began using fuel additive per the dealers recommendation.

Mainly used for long strips, no stop and go, idling or towing miles with no previous problems. Serviced every 7500 miles with Dello 400 and aftermarket filters. I cleaned the EGR valve 100 miles ago but it really didn’t need it.

Why are injectors failing?

Thanks

Fuel pump in the HFCM most likely culprit. I'd get a fuel pressure gauge & check you're pressure. If an injector(s) go bad, one thing I'd have them really look hard at is the fuel pump. It seems the injectors don't like not having enough fuel pressure.

IIRC, you need about 50psi min @ WOT for it to be working correctly.

Another reason could be that it took you so long to get the 06E17 calibration, which was to help with stiction & cold start problems on the injectors.

OMC

 

[repp]

Thanks. Good information.

Dealer preformed Fuel Pump Pressure and Injection Pressure Regulator tests after they replaced the injectors. I recall being told one was stuck open and one partially clogged but not positive. Would low fuel pressure cause an injector to stick open causing knock and black smoke?

The replaced injectors are warrantied for 12 months/12,000 miles so I plan on going to dealer to test if either of these failed. If one of the other six failed I assume you're saying it could be caused by the delayed reflash.

As I intend to replace the remaining original injectors myself any other ideas as to the possible cause of the failures? Service Manager recommended fuel additive and service interval of 5000 miles, Mechanic Supervisor speculated failed fuel or oil filter before teardown and Mechanic said if he knew he wouldn't be working there. :thumbsup:

 

[OMCUSNR]

Thanks. Good information.

Dealer preformed Fuel Pump Pressure and Injection Pressure Regulator tests after they replaced the injectors. I recall being told one was stuck open and one partially clogged but not positive. Would low fuel pressure cause an injector to stick open causing knock and black smoke?

The replaced injectors are warrantied for 12 months/12,000 miles so I plan on going to dealer to test if either of these failed. If one of the other six failed I assume you're saying it could be caused by the delayed reflash.

As I intend to replace the remaining original injectors myself any other ideas as to the possible cause of the failures? Service Manager recommended fuel additive and service interval of 5000 miles, Mechanic Supervisor speculated failed fuel or oil filter before teardown and Mechanic said if he knew he wouldn't be working there. :thumbsup:

I hope one of the techs will hop in on this. I've serviced mine every 7.5k w/ DELO 15W40 over the 76k life of my truck too. I've pulled a OA at every change to track fuell dilution & the wear numbers are all good. Blackstone has twice told me the oil looked like it could go out another 1k, but with it shearing, I don't want to go past 7.5k.

Every time I've looked at the fuel drained frome my HFCM,its been really good. Maybe some minor dirt, but nothing that the filter can't handle, and no water ever. I get my filters from IH, so I don't think they could be a problem - what filters are you using? I did get the 06E17 when it 1st came out, but I don't think I had stiction problems, because it really doesn't get all that cold around here. Never did have the "buzz flash". I've never had a bad looking fuel filter - upper filter dark maybe, but not loaded or collapsed. How frequently do you check the HFCM for fuel quality?

On your truck, I'd have to GUESS that the HFCM may well be the cause of the problem, or a major contributor. W/out a fuell pressure gauge it's hard to tell though. With my truck coming off of warranty this month, I'm considering gauges fuel, EGT, & oil - w/ a manual trans trans temp isn't quite the problem it is with a auto.

Hope we get some more info on this - Good luck

OMC

 

[repp]

Fuel filters (Racor from Oilguard) had 12,800 miles when changed at the 60,000 mile service and only 1,800 miles and no cold weather use when the injectors failed the first time.

Dealer changed oil and fuel filters (Motocraft) with new injectors and had 2,100 miles when they failed this time.

Don’t know what a “buzz flash” is and I have never checked the HFCM for fuel quality. Care to elaborate?

Would the Fuel Pump Pressure check preformed by the dealer rule out the HFCM as the cause or do you mean an intermittent low fuel pressure problem that could be monitored by a gauge?

With all the horror stories (head gasket/studs, turbo/Y pipe, EGR/Oil coolers, bad FICM/PCM/HFCM, etc.) on here I doubt I will throw much money at this other than 6 injectors unless I can get a reasonable explanation why it‘s happening.

Truck has stranded me between Montana and California twice where I had to have someone get me with a flatbed. Completely out of friends, no one will return my calls if they think I’m on the road. Maybe I can make some new friends here.:icon_rolleyes:

How can we get some techs to jump in? Please?

Thanks

 

[repp]

Service writer called today to say problem is #7 injector. Also said technician wanted to check turbo and EGR.

Being a skeptic, is there any way for me to have them varify this is the bad one? Specifically, what test would they run? Can I get a printout?

Thanks

 

[OT]

rep..

FWIW..you can read here under job aids Turbo Diesel Forums | Ford Diesel Forums | 6.4L Diesel | 6.0L Diesel | 7.3L Di

Pure speculation, but seems possible its just the f.i. itself, self destructing (so to speak) why..orig. C94 on 03 were replaced early on with redesigned C95. C94s called (at the time)ticking time bombs. Apparently rightly so. But..

Im still on orig. C94..under 50K mi. still ok so far. But, many like yourself got premature failures. Shame on :ford:. Not bad idea to replace remaining f.i. JMO!

Ive used PS DKleen fuel additive for years. Maybe the extra lubricity has helped? Anyhow...Good luck!

 

[stevedunham]

Why are injectors failing?

Thanks

They're junk, that's why... At least yours didn't blow up like mine did when my injector went south... Doing 65 up a Mountain Pass, mine dropped a defective fuel injector tip into the cylinder, which then got compressed up against the intake valve and popped a hole in it... Then, the broken injector tip overfueled the cylinder with raw diesel and when the piston tried to compress it, it bent the rod... Ker-floooey... Entire engine was filled with Diesel and had to be replaced, all 'cause of a faulty injector design... Can't understand why Ford is having such a hard time being profitable though...

 

[repp]

FWIW..you can read here under job aids Turbo Diesel Forums | Ford Diesel Forums | 6.4L Diesel | 6.0L Diesel | 7.3L Di

Thanks, very interesting site.

My #3 and #4 were replaced with part no. 3C3Z 9E527 ECRM. Are these C94 or C95? Where is a good source?

Talked to the Tech today, refreshingly forthright and apparently honest. Concurred that I may be throwing good money after bad. :thumbsup:

 

[OT]

Your replacements are C95. Site sponsors may carry them? Or post q. on upgrade/aftmkt forum. Good luck!

IIRC...C94 were discontinued early May 03.

 

[repp]

Any downside to aftermarket? Who makes the OEM ones for Ford?

Thanks

P.S. Motor not really "Dead", hard to start, noisy and rough but runs for diagnostic. Not contribution from #7.

 

[repp]

Pulled #7 injector today, a little gunk in corner of one fuel inlet screens on the injector body, lower white fuel o-ring showing black residue and fuel stain below bottom o-ring. Does this provide any insight as to cause of failure? Can an injector be disassembled without damaging it?

Also, could someone tell me the torque for the High pressure oil rail and injector hold down bolts?

Was told by parts guy that Alliant makes all new injectors for Ford.

Thanks

 

[OT]

tq. chart here 03 6L Specs..pics..lots info. Good luck.

 

[repp]

thank you my friend

 

[nitrogen]

possible cause of injector failure is combustion gas coming past the copper seal. any time there is vapors in the injector it can hurt that injector plus any which are downstream in the fuel flow. i.e. fuel supply is from the front of the heads, so if the front injector seal fails the next 3 injectors on that rail will get aie bubbles in them. combustion gas is sooty so it also is very abrasive to finely finished injector parts

 

[repp]

Tech showed me that #7 seemed to be only one effected. Tip of injector was black but copper gasket and lower body is clean.

Ordered 6 new Alliant (not reman).