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AutoEnginuity w/the Ford Bundle will read ABS codes.

With it being a safety system, I believe any ABS code should set a light. Could be wrong, though.

Have you done any tear apart of the calipers after they failed? This sure sounds like a corrosion issue. Maybe a piston seal allowing moisture / humidity in and corroding where you can't see it? Or a slide pin corroding?
 

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Discussion Starter #22
Auto Enginuity sounds like my best option after the new front calipers are installed if I still have issues. No I haven't torn them down. They get a $50/ea core so I have to send them back in the original box no less.

I've maintained all of the calipers and brackets exceptionally well over the years and the slide pins are working fine. I mean if you put a big C clamp on the pads and press the cups in they slide real easy. So do the pads in the caliper brackets. So that leaves the possibility of corrosion of the caliper around the cups or an ABS issue.

The ABS light does not remain illuminated after start up. Not sure if it would under the circumstances if it were an ABS issue. Then again there are 2 sides to the ABS system; The Electronic and the Hydraulic. Would the ABS light illuminate with a problem in the Hydraulic side ?

What's really weird is after replacing the 5 flexible hose ends and shortly thereafter the rear calipers immediately thereafter both front calipers lock up tighter than a crabs arse. I mean those babies were SMOKIN hot.

Being there are separate brake lines to each front caliper makes me wonder since only one feeds both rear calipers. Just some food for thought.

--Harry
 

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Diagnostics are only as good as what the sensors can read, so no, there could certainly be an issue mechanically that the electronic side of the ABS system can't see.

A possibility is that one or more of the cup seals in the ABS pump have flipped. I've never had this issue myself, but my neighbor (who's a mechanic) has. He now opens the bleeder screw when compressing the pistons into the calipers to allow the fluid a path other than backwards through the system. It only takes an extra minute to bleed some fluid through after getting it back together and ensure there's no air in the system.
 

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Harry,

Sorry, I don’t visit here that often here to have seen the PM on the day you posted. I probably wasn’t as responsive last May with your situation – I had been taking care of my mother and she finally past on 5/31.

That model year truck has a three circuit ABS system, one circuit for the rear brakes and one for each front brake. Internally all circuits share an accumulator to maintain emergency pressure and the pressurizing pump. And there are spool valves that are only active during an ABS warranted event, otherwise at full rest.

When you first turn on the truck the ABS goes into self-diagnosis, checking that the three wheel speed sensors are functional, the pressure pump is functional, and that three spool valves actuate. After that the only reason you would see the yellow ABS light are listed below. I’ve never heard of an ABS cup issue, nor do I remember there being any cup in the K-H ABS unit. O-Rings yes, but the only cups in the hydraulic circuit are in the M/C.

Here is a list of what the diagnostics would tell you. B's are in the electronic module or brake pedal switch, C's are in the controller.

B1342 Anti-Lock Brake Control Module Failure
B1485 Brake Pedal Position (BPP) Switch Circuit Failure
B1676 Voltage Out of Range
B2141/B2477 Memory Configuration Failure
C1226 Brake Lamp Warning Output Circuit Short to Ground
C1194/C1196 LF ABS Outlet Valve Circuit Failure/Short to Battery
C1198/C1200 LF ABS Inlet Valve Circuit Failure/Short to Battery
C1202/C1204 Rear ABS Outlet Valve Circuit Failure/Short to Battery
C1206/C1208 Rear ABS Inlet Valve Circuit Failure/Short to Battery
C1210/C1212 RF ABS Outlet Valve Circuit Failure/Short to Battery
C1214/C1216 RF ABS Inlet Valve Circuit Failure/Short to Battery
C1155 LF Wheel Speed Sensor Input Circuit Failure
C1158/C1233 LF Wheel Speed Sensor Input Signal Erratic/Missing
C1145 RF Wheel Speed Sensor Input Circuit Failure
C1148/C1234 RF Wheel Speed Sensor Input Signal Erratic/Missing
C1230 Rear Axle Speed Sensor Input Circuit Failure
C1229/C1237 Rear Wheel Speed Input Signal Erratic/Missing
C1095/C1096 ABS Hydraulic Pump Motor Failure
C1113/C1115/C1185 Shorted Internal Power Relay
C1185 Open Internal Power Relay
C1169 Excessive Dump Time
C1184 ABS System Timeout
C1222 Wheel Speed Error/Mismatch

All are electrical circuit failures with the only exception being C1169 indicating a slow spool valve response. If a spool valve had moved to a closing position and is stuck there would be no way to tell other then yellow light on, C1169 code. But if it was in a closed position you would not be getting any brake fluid to the wheel(s) and would notice a severe pull or very poor stopping ability.


The first thing is to determine if it’s a mechanical problem at the calipers or a hydraulic issue upstream. Considering both front wheels at the same time, in the back of my mind I’m thinking upstream hydraulics, but that’s not the way to check. The one thing everyone with a truck that is having brake hang-up issues should do is to carry around a wrench so you can open the caliper bleeder screws to relieve hydraulic pressure. That may not be the issue but when the hang-up is occurring it is definitive to tell if either the hoses or the actuation system upstream traps the fluid. Plus if it is a hydraulic pressure issue it will allow it to release so you can move along. One wrench in the glove compartment. But that pressure check has to be done while the brake is hanging up and hot.

Now it is possible that both front wheel ends have a hang-up issue at the same time, but that is not the way it usually happens. It’s typically one side, or one side then the other side at different times. Same if the very rare occurrence of the ABS controller having an issue with one of its spool valves, it would have to happen with both valves at the same time.

So now we go upstream as there is only one brake line coming into the ABS controller for both front brakes. And if the front chamber of the M/C is not fully retracting to its rest position so the compensating port opens to the reservoir and releases all pressure, you can have both front wheels locking up. Usually the common complaint is that all four wheels locked up, but I have seen on a number of occasions when the design/manufacturing of the M/C is such that the two chambers and seals are not perfectly sync’ed. And the best way to sort that out is to slightly back off the line nuts on the M/C lines to see if there is pressurized fluid there, again when the hang-up occurs. Now if you’ve already released pressure at the calipers that’s not going to happen, so a repeat drive or event needs to happen to check that.

Did you ever move the M/C forward to see if there was any rust behind it as discussed last May? Can you do another run and see if the problem reoccurs, then check at the bleeders / line nuts? Maybe you’ve already done this. Hard to tell from three hours away.

When you change out the front calipers if you want to check the caliper interior for rust or other issues the rebuilder should only be concerned that they are getting back the caliper body and the pistons. They should not care if it is disassembled, but you can check with the store beforehand.
 

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Discussion Starter #25
Thanks TKO and Jack. Sorry to hear about your loss.

Thanks for taking the time to compose the response. Theres some good info there. I'm smacking my head for not thinking about keeping a 3/8" wrench in the truck. Great idea.

I should have the front calipers tomorrow and I'll swap them out. One of the things that I found the day after the front brake lock up was that my brake pedal was waaaay low. So yesterday morning I bled the 4 calipers with about 2 quarts of brake fluid. I removed my front calipers and the pads were in pretty good shape. They only have a couple thousand miles on them. I took the truck out and did quite a few abrupt stops. The pedal is much more sensitive and seems ok. So far so good. But I'm only running around town. The problem generally arises on trips of 25 miles or more.

I'm just wondering if air in the brake lines may have caused both front calipers to lock up. Considering I just replaced both rear calipers I may not have bled the system thoroughly. Just a thought.

I guess I'll know for sure in a couple of days once the front calipers are installed which direction to go if the problem hasn't been resolved.

Thanks again for all the input. I'll keep you guys apprised of the situation.

Best, --Harry
 

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Thanks. I got her to 99 days and 101 years, about a decade longer then her siblings. Not sure I could have done better and her quality of life was degrading so it was time.

You've had a long / soft pedal before. Air is often the issue with that although a malfunctioning M/C or ABS controller can also do that. There is a check for the ABS, but you have to remove the drivers side battery on your year I believe. I have the procedure at my Facebook page and I should have it up on this site in the past. But if you had overheated brakes depending on the temperature and time you could have had some brake fluid boil, and while most of the gasses reconstitute back into fluid, sometimes they don't with residual gas left behind. That could be your longer pedal. Air will not cause a lockup, just the longer pedal.

The front brakes would have a higher friction level after a hot event. It's typical on a truck of this size to have a friction material that develops it's best frictional characteristics when it's commercially worked in an upper temperature range. The friction on the 99-04 trucks had a higher then normal delta between its low energy and high energy input levels. The thinking was the SDs were going to the commercial market and the material would be fine. For those of us that use the vehicle lighter then commercial and around town never get the friction to change over to its higher potential. The OE materials for the 05+ years does not have as large of a delta! but all semi-mets OE or aftermarket share that they need to see elevated temperatures to have the highest friction level. That's the reason Companies like Hawk and PF have customers go through a "break in" procedure.

There is something complicated going on with your truck, maybe a couple of things at the same time. Did you ever move the M/C forward and see if there was any rust buildup between the M/C and booster?
 

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Discussion Starter #27
"Did you ever move the M/C forward and see if there was any rust buildup between the M/C and booster?"

No but I will when I swap out the front calipers in the next day or so.
 

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I would also highly suggest removing the caliper mounts and removing the pins and thoroughly cleaning the pin and bore and greasing them with synthetic grease. Those pins can get stuck and lock up causing the caliper not to move the way it should. That could cause a lockup. For some unkown reason I've had issues with the pins on the LH side, but never the RH. I guess I drive in the fast lane a lot...
 

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The passenger side of roadways tend to be lower for water drainage and therefore has more water on its surface. So there is more water spray and more splash from puddles that the passenger side tire throws on the drivers side brake. Think of the TV commercials where people get splashed from road side puddles. Not only does that water go to the sidewalk, but it goes to the drivers side.
 

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Harry,

When you disassembly the front brakes I would do a "forensic" type examination.

Push back the caliper pistons only as much as you need to clear the nibs on the pads steel backs so you can lift off the caliper.

Check if both pads are easy to slide out of the bracket or if there is any hang up.

If hang up, check if there is any rust on the tabs of the steelbacks where the fit into the brackets. Also check if there is any rust under the stainless steel slippers that the tabs slide in. On the 05+ brakes the slide on pad retractors (springs) should robustly push the pads away from the rotor.

As TKO mentioned carefully inspect the pins and bores, but first move the pins back and forth to see how free they are before pulling them out of the bracket.

When you have the old calipers completely off the vehicle try to push each piston in with you thumbs. When new and very free you often can. With a few years service life I usually have to use a small clamp, but I push them in one at a time so I can tell if one has a higher resistance to retraction.

The only other thing to check if you have new brackets is that the pads slide easily before you button it up.
 

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FMTRVT have you ever seen pads that were to thick right out the box?? so thick they don't allow enough clearance to work correct ... I have seen thermo quiets like this more than once (GMC g 3500 srw) just a thought hope you get this sorted out guys
 

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Not me as I'm not in the business anymore.

But yes during my career I've seen aftermarket pads that left the factory out of spec on the thickness grind. Sometimes that happens when the company changes to a different thickness noise insulator on the back and the pad production line is not informed of the change to compensate. On my last set of rear Hawk rear pads they were thicker then stock to for the first 6 months I did not have the OE heat shields installed.
 

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Discussion Starter #33
I would also highly suggest removing the caliper mounts and removing the pins and thoroughly cleaning the pin and bore and greasing them with synthetic grease. Those pins can get stuck and lock up causing the caliper not to move the way it should. That could cause a lockup. For some unkown reason I've had issues with the pins on the LH side, but never the RH. I guess I drive in the fast lane a lot...
Thanks TKO, I've been pretty diligent with the pins and bores. I've experience poor results with synthetic grease so I switched over to Anti-sieze. I also wire wheel the caliper bracket slots and coat those and the pad springs with a Q-Tip and Anti-Sieze and have had much better and longer lasting performance. I live on the water and it can be a very harsh environment.

If I pull a wheel off and throw a c clamp on the caliper and compress the cups the pins slide quite easily. I also check to see if the pads are free too.

As I said, I've been pretty diligent. I have (2) 3.5 ton floor jacks I got at COSTCO for $100/ea (great deal, btw) about twice a year which is about 5K miles I lift one side of the truck and rotate the tires then do the other side. It's at this time that I inspect the condition of the brakes and take whatever action is necessary.

Now you can see why this is driving me a bit crazy :thumbsup:

Thanks for all the input and suggestions guys. Hopefully today I'll have the new calipers from the fine folks at Tousley/White Bear Lake Ford. They are a real pleasure to deal with btw.
 

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Thanks for the tip, I'll keep an eye on them and see how the grease holds up. I used to hit the old style slide pins with anti-seize, and never had an issue with them.
 

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Discussion Starter #35
Ok so I swapped out the front calipers and pads yesterday. Even though the pads that were on the truck still had plenty of meat on them I deep 6'ed em anyway. The old calipers had a lot of corrosion in comparison to the new ones. I didn't get a chance to road test it. Will get to that this afternoon. The calipers were $105/ea and were not re-mans. Shipping 2 calipers and set of pads was $31.







 

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Crusty. That flaky rust would have concerned me too.
 

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I'll say it again....I tend to believe this is a corrosion problem. These pictures somewhat support that, but I'd pop the pistons of the calipers and see what's going on in there.

It's hard to say without seeing them side-by-side with the new ones, but the seals around the pistons look a little swollen. That could just be the side effect from over heating, though.

On edit: I just looked up your location. No corrosion there :icon_wink: ....lol.
 

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The flakiness I'm not too worried about. Usually at this point in mileage there is a buildup of brake dust under the caliper bridge and the paint also flakes due to heat and corrosion. The dust boots also typically get a coating of brake dust which is embedded due to the dust being hot just like plasma spraying, which also makes them not as pliable.

In the second picture it almost looks like a little wetness on the left piston, same with third, although not very much. The boots normally touch and distort in the middle due to the close proximity of the two pistons and boots.

In the forth picture at the lower left boot it looks like there is a hole and a slit in the boot, but you would need to look closer at those. As Scott said, the calipers need to be taken apart to really inspect if anything is going on behind the boot, otherwise not too revealing.

Since the pistons are retracted back into the caliper body did you get a chance to check how easily each piston went back in?
 

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I'm in same boat with my early '99: had it ten years now, every now and again a single rear or front caliper will hang up anywhere from severely to slightly hanging.

It's annoying as all get out and ALWAYS seems to happen in a time window where I am right in between jobs, on my way to the next.

Wheels off, calipers off, clean/inspect em, bleed em....looks like there's a great market here for someone with a shop and knowledge to do re-mans that are %100.

I'll try the anti-seize on pins trick mentioned above, but I hate putting anti-seize that close to these parts. Q-Tip careful...

Great thread...





However, since just under 36K I've had brake issues.

Randomly my calipers will appear to seize up. Maybe the right rear which developed just before my 36 month warranty expired. Sometimes both rear lock up.
Sometimes front right or left. Its totally random and afterwards (next day) I'll pull the wheel off and everything works fine (caliper slides fine, no rust, no visible debris, etc.).

Today both rear calipers and front left hung on the return trip from getting groceries. Last 30 miles of a 175 mile round trip. They unlocked and locked up again on and off. My TFT usually sits at 159º but went as high as 182º and the drag was noticeable. When I got back home I did a walk around and found both rear wheels and front left hot.

The brake lines are all in good visual order. No swelling or bulging on the rubber extensions. I can't figure this out. Being that I maintain the brakes religiously. Clean the caliper brackets, slide pins, etc. at least twice a year.

Could this be due to a master cylinder problem or a problem with the proportioning valve ?

After so much trouble I definitely need to swap out the rotors, calipers, and pads as well as flush the brake fluid.

So do I need to go the extra and swap out the master cylinder and perhaps the proportioning valve ?

People beyotch about the 6.0 engine which I (knock on wood) have had no issues with due to preventative measures that I've employed due to the knowledge shared by the fine folks here at TDS.

However the brake problems are starting to get to me. I love the truck and have a lot of neat stuff I've done to it and really want to keep it another 10 years but this is driving me nuts. Plus the stench of burning brakes really sux.

Any comments, suggestions, etc. would be greatly appreciated.

TIA
 

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Discussion Starter #40
I'll say it again....I tend to believe this is a corrosion problem. These pictures somewhat support that, but I'd pop the pistons of the calipers and see what's going on in there.

It's hard to say without seeing them side-by-side with the new ones, but the seals around the pistons look a little swollen. That could just be the side effect from over heating, though.

On edit: I just looked up your location. No corrosion there :icon_wink: ....lol.
I'd love to dig deeper into the problem by popping the pistons but business obligations are pretty demanding and I'd like to get the cores back to Tousley/White Bear for the charge on this credit card cycle which is up in 10 days.

Yeah, my location listed isn't quite "exact" I'm further east but if you saw my actual property you would definitely understand that it seems as if I'm living on a boat. Can't complain too much about that. Just the Hipsters and citiots (city-idiots) that infiltrate in the summer season. Gotta rin and bear it tho, they're money is just as green as everyone else. It's the attitude that leaves many of us saying "If it's tourist season, why can't we shoot em?"

LOL
 
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