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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Just a friendly warning of what I learned the hard way regarding Diesel Exhaust Fluid. To make a long story short I was distracted as one of my guys went to fill up my DEF tank in my 2011 f250. Due to me taking a cell call approximately 1 gallon of the fluid was poured into the wrong tank (the diesel tank) before I noticed. If you guys don’t know the DEF and diesel fill ups holes are right next to each other on the fords (not a good idea). I am not very familiar with this fluid, I read the back of the DEF bottle and not seeing anything that concerned me about mixing a bit of the DEF in the diesel tank I did not think too much of it. I thought after all they are meant to burn together and I just filled the truck up with about 27 gallons of diesel and if it could really cause harm it would be posted on the DEF bottle. After driving it for a while, it quietly stalled and I coasted to the shoulder, turned the key a few times with no luck then had it towed. I was initially informed that it would cost $9,000 to repair the damage. After the work was performed After just getting of the phone with the ford dealer we are now up to well over $20,000.00 in damage and in need of a new engine and fuel system on a 2011 truck with 25,000 miles on it. Due to this mistake.
Ultimately the reality is that I have no one to blame for this but myself. But if one gallon of this fluid can do this and the tank fills are right next to one another I can’t help but think I’m not the first to do this.
And likely won’t be the last. After spending tens of thousands keeping a few of the past two generation ford diesels running I told myself I would never get one again. A bit back one of my company trucks diesels blow a hole in the block at 17,000 miles. That at least that $25,000 bill was covered under warranty. My other ford diesels were just endless money pits.
I don’t know why but I found myself at the dealer sitting in a new F250 listening to the sales men tell me how it gets over 20 miles to the gallon and how much HP it has. I was also told that I would never have to fill up the DEF tank and it would be filled only at oil changes. Ford designed it to not need to be filled between oil changes. Before I knew it I was driving a truck with way less power than I imagined averaging about 14.8 miles to the gallon as per the ford computer but I think it was lying a good bit. I was also filling up the DEF tank twice in between oil changes. So now not only do you have to make sure you have enough fuel to get places you need to keep an eye on the DEF, and the DEF Can be tough to find.
Like I said this one is my fault, but help me out a little bit. Freightliner vans have been using this fluid for several years and the fill up for the DEF is under the hood. And dodge Cummings meet emission requirements without needing DEF. I almost feel like ford designed it this way for failure to make a few extra bucks.

Below is an email I just received from the dealer

Mr. Mcdonald,
As per our discussion, I am providing you with a breakdown of what repairs have been performed and repairs still required to address the damage done to the fuel system and engine caused by the fuel contamination when the diesel exhaust fluid was added to your fuel tank.
When vehicle was towed in to Larson Ford it did not start or run. During our discussion over the phone you described to me that one of your employees had mistakenly added DEF fluid to your fuel tank and that the vehicle was then driven until it shut-off and would not restart.
Upon initial inspection the engine would not turn over either by starter or manually. When Ford was contacted to inquire about the possible effects of this contamination we found that a possible reason the engine would not turn would be due to high pressure fuel pump catastrophic failure, which would jamn the gear that is connecting the engine to the hp pump. Removal of the pump was required to see if the engine would turn. Also, this type of failure requires complete replacement and cleaning of required fuel system components.Upon obtaining authorisation for pump removal, we dissassemble to the point of pump removal and found the engine would turn manually. As we still could not start the engine, fuel system repairs were required and authorised to enable starting of the engine. the required fuel system repairs totalled $9035.00+tax which included fuel supply pump, high pressure pump, fuel injector manifolds, fuel injection steel lines, fuel injectors, fuel filters, all needed gaskets and seals. Also included removal and cleaning of fuel tank, supply and return lines.
Upon completion of fuel system repairs, vehicle started and ran, but ran rough. Engine diag for missfire determine no contribution from 2 cylinder, no compression.Informed that a partial teardown of engine was required to determine extent of repairs required to engine.Upon authorisation and teardown found several pushrods, rocker arms and valves damaged, also found valves had contacted pistons causing further damage to lower internal engine components.
When comparing replacement of damaged engine components to "longblock" replacement, it was determined that "lomgblock replacement was the most cost effective repair. Parts and labor for "longblock" replacement total additional $13997.00+tax.Bringing the total repair cost to $23032.00+tax. This total cost includes all fuel system components already replaced, all needed seals, gaskets, engine parts and fluids, and all labor charges to complete repairs.
Due to the cost of the parts required Larson Ford requires a deposit to account for parts and labor already invested in repairs and to order the engine "longblock". deposit required is $12,500.00.
If you require any other information please contact me by phone at 732-363-8100 ext. 505 as this is the most effective contact method.

Thomas Fortin
Assistant Service Manager
Larson Ford
1150 Ocean Ave
Lakewood, N.J.
08701
 

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Don't bash on Ford because someone couldn't read the the tops of the fuel caps which one says diesel and one says DEF. I'm pretty sure they are different colors too. Its not a bad design but a bad operator....Just my opinion
 

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What's a Cummings?
 

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Well they meet requirements without DEF this year, what about next year? Their cab n chassis models use it.
I think it's just a matter of paying attention not a design flaw, like if you have are facing a building and put the vehicle in D instead of R, it's not Fords fault the letters are so close together.

Not sure though, maybe I'm lucky but I currently have 2 Fords, a 6.0L and an '11 and the only problem has been the head gaskets needed to be changed on the 6.0 and it was covered under warranty. Other than regular maintenance costs I haven't been out any cash on either.
I do have 100k warranties on both and as soon as the 6.0 hits it, the entire EGR system will be gone and as soon as the 6.7 hits it the entire exhaust system will be changed.

Now I do agree that my truck goes through DEF quicker than I had hoped but after reading the manual it does say if you tow a lot expect to refill it from around 3,600 miles and up.

As for the Cummins, I respect the engine, not the truck and it just wasn't the one for me, I drove all of the big 3's DRW trucks and again the Ford was the one for me.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Ya I hear you guys, like I said I do take all the blame. I was just so hell bent on never buying another ford diesel after the past two generations cost me so much. Anyone who says other is really lucky or just a liar and doesn’t want to admit the problems. But like many of you I have been a ford person my whole life as has my father and grandfather. So I did go get the new ford diesel. I was really under whelmed. Maybe I just expected too much. I do like the ford because it I do just feel better sitting in it. It’s just been so many years of problems with several ford diesels even though this one was my fault for the first time its still adds to the frustration.
 

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If you think the 6.7 Cummins are not having issues, you are living on another planet. They have FAR more issues than Ford, and you don't even have to pour DEF into the tank to have them. Along with that, the Dodge truck bodies are junk. Makes for a complete POS.
Bashing Ford because of an error that resulted completely by your negligence is rediculous. The bad thing is that you went ahead and drove it like that...
 

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The same thing would have happened had you put a gallon of antifreeze, water, bleach, Coca-Cola, other bodily fluid, or just about any other fluid that was mostly water in your diesel tank.

So...

If one of my employees would have done this, I would have told him to read the label, and then fire the bastard.

Cell phones have build in answering machines for a reason. Use it, it's a lot cheaper than a $20k mistake, even if you drop the cell phone.

Sorry, but Dodges are not the answer to your problem. Common sense is.

Life's tough and you don't get no hugs and kisses here. Tough it out and stop complaining.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Im bashing on ford a bit due to a buildup of things over the years. I have 2011 f250s that have 50,000 miles on them and I had to take them to have their rear leaf springs re arched and additional springs added because they were sagging so bad empty. The guy at the spring shop had a line of fords in the lot. He’s never been so busy and in the past never had so many new trucks coming in. $1,000 per 9 month old truck for springs. Im just saying when I look at the whole picture maybe I have been to closed minded to following ford.
 

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Consider giving the truck back the bank and walk away...why pay another 50% for it?
Of course your credit will suffer.
 

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Thank god you didn't get Ford to pay for this. The rest of us are tired of paying for warranty claims by idiots who screw up their own trucks and try and blame ford. Good for Ford for not caving or getting suckered.
 

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Well they meet requirements without DEF this year, what about next year? Their cab n chassis models use it.
That was my conclusion when I deliberated which 2011 hauler to buy to pull my 5th wheel. I kept reading that it's only a matter of time before DEF will be a fact of life everywhere.

This is just one more case of, when something goes wrong, the first thing people do is start dancing and trying to find somewhere else to point their finger. No one wants to take personal responsibility for anything any more - it's always somebody else's fault.

Are the filler points close together? Yeah, they are. Is that adequate justification to mix them up, despite the fact they're different sizes and colors? Do you really want a seperate filler door somewhere out there on the side of the truck?

Think of it as a "learning experience".
 

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Discussion Starter #12
No, this one was my doing I don’t owe the bank but that’s not how I roll anyway. Nor do I think ford should pay for this one. As it says in the letter I told them that there was DEF in the tank and it was driven. Not once did I think this should be on fords dime. Although I will say this truck never drove straight from the day I got it and ford could not fix that. After all these years I just consider not going straight part of owning a ford. After spending some time on here reading I do have to admit that I have on many occasions found my transmission to be acting goofy as hell like many others on here. Never really thought much about it though. Unfortunately having the diesel and DEF fill tanks right next to each other is more responsibility than many can handle in the construction world. This isn’t going to be the last ford that blows up because the DEF tank is not under the hood. Might not consider it a design flaw but there is a better way of doing it.
 

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I feel for you, but i also believe you knowing it happened, and own Diesel trucks you know that truck should have never been started.Towed in and probably been out dropping fuel tank and flushed. not $ 20 grand. but i do comend you on sucking up and being truthful about it all.
 

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Just the more I read, I have no idea what people are doing to their trucks that have so many problems.
Like with his spring issue, with my new truck and the '07 my springs do the opposite of sag. After I put 2700+ lbs in the bed of them a couple times the damn things arch up more like a 70's hot rod.
I know people get a lemon here and there but damn. Maybe people need to be buying 450-550 CnC trucks instead.
 

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Now, maybe I am just the suspicious kind, but I am thinking the T word here.
 

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Unfortunately having the diesel and DEF fill tanks right next to each other is more responsibility than many can handle in the construction world.
Well, maybe the owners of vehicles in "the construction world" need to pay more attention to how their vehicles are treated, so these things don't happen. Just a thought.

But, what about the gas stations that have gasoline and diesel hoses next to each other? Who do we blame when someone fuels with the wrong hose? I did that once, put diesel into my Honda Goldwing. Did I go whining to the Goldwing forum and try to make a case for hoses too close together? I did not. C'mon. This has to end somewhere.
 

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Huh?

Definite T word. These "plants" are getting more sophisticated with their semi-plausible stories.

Why Cummins? Why not Duramax??? At least then you are getting a somewhat suitable motor in a chassis with a fit and finish that is TREMENDOUSLY better instead of an arguably superior motor in a wholly inferior "truck".

If this is truly true, I feel bad for the owner and the accident, but please excuse my fairly strong skepticism at this point by saying:

"Pics or it didn't happen..."

(That could include scans of the invoices from the dealer, etc.)
 
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