[F350BLONDIE]

:wink2: I decided to join this for two reasons: my strong love of my diesel truck and I need help (please)!. I have a 1999 f350 crew cab diesel 4x4, long bed, 8 in. lift, diesel (7.3 motor, most will know that : ), 110,000 mi. ). I was out of town the other day and my truck quit! I pulled up to the diesel pump and turned it off, when I tried to start it again it wouldn't start at all. The truck gave me no indication of anything going wrong before this happened, it was fine. I am pretty sure it's not the battery, since the dash lights and headlights come on just fine. If I had to bet money, I'd say it was the starter, because you turn the key to where you're almost starting it (where the wait to start light comes on) and on the final turn, just nothing. It kind of makes a noise, like a clicking (I am hoping that noise is the fuel pump turning on and working) and then kind of a spinning noise, but not sounding like it's turning over. (Sorry, it's hard to describe sounds). Anyways, I had to pay a huge tow bill, because the truck is big and I had to get a specialty tow truck - flat bed. I certainly don't have money to throw at this to try and guess the problem. I just purchased a new battery a few months ago and the other one tested fine at the time, but I have heard even if the battery is a few cells low it could cause it not to start, but I really don't think this (since lights, dash, cd player, everything comes on normally). I also maybe think it could be the fuel pump, but I sure hope not. I am really betting on the starter, but I have no money and I can't afford to be wrong! Already in the past 6 months I have had to have the transmission re-built (costly a new water pump, thermostat, upper and lower hoses, belt (luckilly, my dad and I were able to do those things), he's not around to help me now. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. It's not running, so I can't take it to a shop and ask and the check engine light isn't on, so I can't try and get a trouble code. Thanks, new girl. Please feel free to e-mail : [email protected], or on my myspace: myspace.com/ashleighm85, you can also see pictues of my truck on there under my pics!! I am not a complete idiot, I have been working on cars with my dad since I could walk, I do my own oil changes, brakes, etc.. and I heard a starter is pretty easy to install, but I know fuel pump is not !! My dad and I did that on my stupid yukon. PLEASE I AM DESPERATE FOR HELP HERE AND I HAVE VERY LIMITED CASH LAYING AROUND THANKS SOOOO MUCH - NEWBIE

 

[barnbuilder]

The fuel pump is underneath on the frame. You can crawl underneath and see it. Turn the key on and you will be able to hear the pump run for about 20 seconds. If both batteries aren't strong it will can turnover but not start. If you have a charger hook them up and see if that helps. Possibly the Cam Position Sensor. Also make sure your battery cables are in good shape.

 

[klhansen]

Welcome to TheDieselStop

Sorry about your troubles, but we should be able to help figure it out for you.

It sounds like you're having starter motor problems to me. You're describing a spinning noise, but the engine not turning over. Can you tell where it's coming from? Like barnbuilder says, the fuel pump is under the driver's seat on the frame rail. It doesn't make much noise, but is audible right after you turn the key on (before you turn to "start" position). If you're hearing a fairly loud spinning noise only with the key in start, it's probably the starter motor spinning, but the bendix (drive gear) is not engaging the flywheel teeth. It's possible that you just have a worn spot on the flywheel ring gear and it landed right on that spot when you shut down. You could try turning the motor over with a wrench on the crank pulley bolt and see if that positions a good spot on the ring gear to engage with the starter. But more than likely the starter bendix has given up. Another trick to try is whacking the starter with a hammer as you crank it over, possibly freeing up the bendix. You may just need to replace the starter, which isn't a terrible job to DIY, but not the easiest.

Good luck with it.

I'll move your post down to the 99&up 7.3L Engine & Drivetrain forum for a bit more exposure.

 

[Medik Herb]

Sounds like the starter to me too. Good luck.

 

[fordmano]

Hello and welcome.:thup:

I know it may sound silly :icon_rolleyes: but have you checked to see if the starter is just very loose?

My starter came loose a while back and only took a couple tries of starting the truck and it moved around enough to break the wire that feeds the solenoid, but it did make some crunching noises then just spin then nothing got progressivle worse each time i tried to start it. I spent probably 45 minutes or better trouble shooting it started at the fuses ( have had soem problems with fuses shaking loose) then checked batteries, still don't know what exactly told me to crawl under there and actually touch the starter but I did and it moved around far enouogh to NOT make contact with the ring gear in the bell housing.

Good luck:icon_wink:

 

[mtshowdown]

Typical for the starter solenoid. You can replace the solenoid without replacing the starter.

 

[westvandude]

Also, check the cabling going from the battery to starter solenoid to starter motor. Sometimes the end of the cable corrodes and on rare occasion breaks right off the starter (had this on F150).

To check solenoid you can bridge the two big terminals with a big screwdriver (don't touch any other metal part of the truck). If starter turns over (with ignition on) you know it's fubar.

 

[61uni]

If it is the fuel punp, it isn't bad. It is on the drivers frame rail, not in the tank.

 

[SmokeyWren]

It's not running, so I can't take it to a shop and ask and the check engine light isn't on, so I can't try and get a trouble code.

Bad assumption. There can be diagnostic trouble codes (DTC) set even though the check engine light (malfunction indicator light) is not on. But to DIY, you have to have a scanner or programmer than can read 7.3L DTCs. Most cheap scanners and programmers will not read 7.3L DTCs.

If you cannot afford to throw parts at your truck, then you must read the DTCs to see what the problem is. If it is the starter solonoid as others seem to think, then a scanner won't help find it. But if it's not the starter, then you need to know the codes.

My guess is the main computer (PCM). I hope that's not your problem, because that is not a cheap fix. When mine quit back in 2004 with 123,000 miles on it, The PCM wouldn't communicate with the scan tool. I was on the road, so my cost was not only the tow truck bill, but also a rental car and three nights in a campground. And several hundred dollars to the out-of-town Ford dealer. We lucked out an a Good Samaritan hauled our fifth-wheel camper trailer from the Interstate access road to the nearest campground.

The Ford dealer charged me almost $400 for the new PCM, plus diagnostic labor and other charges. And it was Friday night and he didn't have one in stock, so we had to wait until Tuesday before he could have one delivered from the nearest Ford parts depot. If you must replace the PCM and can wait a couple of days for delivery, you can get one from DP-Tuner with a stock tune for $325, or with a custom DP-Tuner hot-rod tune for $400.
Click here: DP-Tuner PCM

 

[Camshaft]

Sounds starter related.

After checking all the fuses - put the truck in neutral. Standing on the passenger side - jump the starter solenoid and see if that turns the starter.

If it does - it could be the starter solenoid, the transmission range sensor, or the PCM.

You could also use a voltmeter on the solenoid to see where the juice is going (or not going). A voltmeter saves a lot of guessing. Put it on the start relay an have a friend try to start it. One side will always be 12V the other side should be 0 then 12 when the key is in start.

If it sends voltage to the starter - then you problem is from the solenoid to the starter. If not - then it is likely the solenoid or something is telling the solenoid not to engage..

Keep us posted.

 

[sparvin]

Still could be the batteries or just a bad connection at the battery or ground. Even with batteries that aren't great, your lights and all are gonna work. That clicking sound is what makes me think it may not be as bad as you think. What do the lights do when you try to turn the engine over? If they almost go out, I'd check batt's and connections, if not look at starter. Let us know what happens.

 

[Bill1013]

You should never replace only one battery, always replace both. Lot's of places don't know how to check batteries, especially if you just drove up or just charged them. In short, a bad battery will soon destroy a new one. You must have replaced one for a reason.

A starter pulls anywhere from 600 to 800+ Amps just to start turning over the motor on a diesel then settles back to 200 to 400 amps after the motor is turning over. That's why, with 2 good batteries you have 1600+ Amps available. 800 - 850 ea. CCA batteries.

If you had the radio, heater and lights on before stopping, the stock alternator is just barely able to keep up with all that on, let alone charge the batteries. Charge the batteries and try to start again.

Wait to try and start about 1 minute after the WTS lite goes off and see if the motor will turn over, glow plugs pull about 200 amps (draw on the batteries) when first turned on, then cycle on/off for up to 2 minutes. Battery voltage will drop to 11.6 even with new batteries.

Clicking sound when key is turned to start-- As said, short across the large terminals on the starter relay, mounted on the fender on the passenger side, one terminal has an insulating cap on it,remove it. If motor starts then that relay is bad. $20 parts store.

If starter don't spin, then check the wireing, and battery cable to starter.

If starter spins but don't engage, then starter is loose or Bendix is not engaging. If it grinds, could be teeth off the ring gear or flex plate is cracked on an automatic tranny. To check that, remove the dust shield bottom rear of motor and inspect it.

If all is good above and the motor tries to start and won't it could be the CPS ( cam positioner sensor) is bad. Has it been changed under recall?

Good luck. And report back.

 

[buzzy12]

I would check all the connections like bill said, i recently had an issue similar to the one you have and all it was, was a loose cable on the starter i guess with all the vibration and bouncin it worked its way loose hope this helps

 

[Todes]

I'm with mtshowdown, sounds like the solenoid not pushing the starter gear to the flywheel. Disconnect the starter and take it to your local parts store and have them test it.....watch it with them!!! it may spin but if a gear does not pop out when it spins then its the solenoid so u will need a new starter

 

[Camshaft]

Ok Blonde - time for an update....how's it going?

 

[Bill1013]

Ok Blonde - time for an update....how's it going?

Maybe she is still stuck under the truck checking the starter.:icon_rolleyes: :icon_wink:

 

[F350BLONDIE]

Hey all, thank you so much for your responses! Sorry, I've been where I didn't have internet access and I just got back tonight, so I still have to deal with the truck!! The thing I've been working on now, is finding a way to tow it to town, because my grandpa has more tools than me and a lift and it would just make life easier! The new problem is I do not want to pay a whole bunch of money for a specialty flat bed tow truck again! (I need to tow it about 40 miles). I thought about putting it on a tow dolly, but there's no way, I don't think it's safe. I have like 38 in. tires. I don't think the straps would fit. Anyways, I have a friend with a big k5 3/4 blazer and he put a 502 in it, so I think that will tow it. Now, I am working on getting a flatbed trailer and I found someone that has a big one that he towed a cat with, so I may be in luck. In any event, I probably can't get everyone on the same page by tomorrow, so tomorrow I am going to put my pink shop coat on and put some of your advice to use!! The first thing I am going to do, is try and eliminate the whole battery thing, even though I'd bet my life that isn't the case. I am going to have someone watch the lights when I try to start it. (and of course check all of the cables and connection crap) After that, I am going to try and jump that starter solenoid thing. Also to mr.bill: I do know better than to buy just one battery, I was just broke. I have things I can't afford, what can I say? I did make sure to have the les schwab guy test the other battery I didn't replace just to make sure it wouldn't drain the new one : ) and I know les schwab isn't the cheapest place to get things, but I can't help it, a lot of the guys that work there are cute. and to Smokeywren I hope it's not the main computer, either. So, thanks for all your advice, I'll keep ya posted. I need to get some rest, have some work to do tomorrow!!

 

[Camshaft]

Fair enough - I think you'll make some good progress - especially if you have a voltmeter....

Could be something very simple you will find with a visual inspection.

Have at it!

 

[rcornwel]

I'll bet my money on the starter. I had a factory one that the gear that engages the flywheel just feel off and was laying in the bell housing. I read your 1st post and if the start is spining and it sounds like it is, it wouldn't be the selonoid. you can drop starter pretty easy where the truck is. disconnect the batteries and then it's just two bolts for the starter and two for the wire harness. I think the bolts are 17mm and 10mm. been a while so I'm not 100% sure on the sizes. good luck

 

[F350BLONDIE]

Update From New(er) Girl

Okay, it took a little longer to take a good look underneath the truck, because it was raining. (THANKS FOR HELP TO ALL) Anyways, the first thing I tried to do was start it again (hoping to get lucky) and that wasn't happening. I checked all the cables and then the batteries and fuses. Then I got on the creeper and took a look at the starter. I felt pretty dumb right about then. It was missing all four bolts!!! Like, hanging by a thread. I am guessing this happened when I had the tranny re-built and I was rushing the guy..MY FAULT and he probably just finger tighened them and forgot about it. I mean all four bolts shaking loose, that's like winning the lottery, right? Now, when I finally got under there it was evening time and I was losing daylight. I didn't get a chance to check the bell housing too well. I was a little worried that maybe a piece of that broke off, rare I know but I have super bad luck, then that would mean dropping the tranny and I can't do that. So, today I went to all of the wrecking yards and they didn't have any ford f350's with 7.3 layin around, so I went to this machinist guy, but he only had 3 bolts and I needed 4, so I took the 3 and called the dealer and ordered some more anyway (they were cheap, suprisingly), while I was on the line I made sure to ask for the torque specs on putting those bolts back. If this whole ordeal is because of missing bolts I am going to be mad and happy at the same time! While new bolts may and thats a big maybe get it to start, I still will probably have to replace the starter eventually because some of the teeth looked a little grinded. I guess you can just order parts for the starter instead of the whole thing but I'm girl dammit and I don't feel like re-building a starter when I don't know what I am doing. They can't be that expensive new...right? So, tomorrow I am going to see what I can do with the bolts I already have, because then I know 100% for sure that's the problem.
MORE QUESTIONS IF ANYONE KNOWS THE ANSWERS PLEASE: Yes, right now I am too cheap (and broke) to buy a chilton's book. I have had the truck for a few years and I have never changed any of the fuel filters. Is that really bad? Of course, I do know to:thumbsup: and get the oil changed all of the time (every 3-4k), all fluids checked, etc.. Does anyone know where they'd be and what kind of tools exactly I'd need to change them out. Again, that is on a '99 f350 crew cab, diesel (7.3). Secondly, and yes I know this is really bad, but for about the past 6 months, the oil pressure gauge has been reading inaccurate. I know this because it's been reading like below the "l" and stays there, it wouldn't run for 6 months if that was the case...I hope. I'd order a oil pressure sending unit thing while I was ordering the bolts for the starter, if I knew a way to find out if the gauge is bad or if it's the sending unit. Someone told me about touching the wire to a piece of metal to see if it's on the "h" then it's the sending unit, not the gauge. Does anyone have more detailed knowledge on this little experiment>? I figured, while I was dealing with this I might as well deal with all of the other problems, not one to let stuff go, that just causes bigger problems. Also, on the lift, and it's a fabtech 8 in. there something welded where I am pretty sure it should be bolted. I know a weld is stronger than a bolt, but I believe this is causing a weird clanking sound when I turn. Probably not a good thing. Arghh..I am tryin! Anyways, any input/advice appreciated THANK YOU!! Ready to get er done.:thumbsup: