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Discussion Starter #21
Actually, I don't think that will work... the part that is still in, is the "male" part that would go into what the picture shows above, as the female part. Unless you're indicating I should somehow pull that part out?
 

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Sometimes a needle-nose vise grip can get in a tight spot and have more room to rotate than a standard vise-grip and if the needle-nose is still too big then You may have to pull the valve cover to get access to some remaining portion of that sensor!
 

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I wouldn't presume to argue with Bismic but you may not need to pull the valve cover. If you have a square easy out that just barely fits in what's left of that sender it should come out easily. Its an ORB fitting so its not really all that tight.

We are all here to help! If it looks like he can get some bite, then go for it, but IIRC the opening on that bottom portion isn't very big. Even so, maybe you could get a small EZ-out in it.

The way the valve cover is "indented" for the sensor (and the way the break appears), it looks to me like it would be tough to get a hold of what is left in. I do think (hope) that you could get a bite on the threads w/ vise grips w/ the valve cover off.

If the valve cover is pulled, then be very careful for sure - spread out some paper or cellophane to catch any small parts that may come off (if there are any).

My concern was that it was put on too tightly, otherwise it shouldn't have come apart. Maybe it was a defective part though.

Please keep us informed.
 

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You know, the more I think about an EZ-out, the more I don't like it. It always seems to generate shavings and you don't want metal shavings (even small ones) dropping through the sensor hole - at least I wouldn't.
 

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Discussion Starter #26
That was my original concern as well. I wonder if there is away to alleviate that concern? I imagine, when I try to get a hold of the plastic male part, it may break as well but I'm assuming the sensor hole isn't extremely large and those pieces won't likely fall through. Then if the rest of the sensor, minus the metal housing, can be pulled out, maybe I'll be able to put some type of putty or lock tight type of stuff to stop anything, shavings, from dropping through when using the easy out?


BTW - I just did a Buzz Test using the AutoEnginuity tool. It was successful. Does the success of that test indicate the nozzles are actually opening or is it just the poppets? I've seen someone indicate that trying to start the engine, while the fuel pump was not operational, could cause the injector nozzles to "Weld" themselves together. I'm not sure how long you'd have to crank something for them to get that hot.

Thanks everyone! I really do like the idea of using the cellophane to cover everything if/when I take the valve cover off to get to the ICP.
 

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Discussion Starter #27
Ok, what I finally decided to do was to buy an Oil Rail and just replace it instead of trying to get the ICP out. I think now that I have the rail out, I can use a pair of pliers to get the ICP out too. Not that anyone needs an extra oil rail laying around but at least it's not garbage.

Having said that: I put new cups on the used oil rail I purchased and installed it into the truck. I also put new stand pipe and dummy plug in. I installed the air test fitting and used my AutoEnginuity to close the IPR and the first test run I wasn't able to hear any air leaking whatsoever... I found that to be odd but ok. No air out of the Oil Filter reservoir when the IPR was set at 100%. I will say I didn't here any difference between IPR at 0% and IPR at 100%. So I'm not even sure the AutoEnginuity actuation even worked. I thought I'd be able to hear the IPR click shut but I'm not sure... Maybe someone can let me know if I should be able to.

Regardless, if I'm not hearing, or seeing any bubbling, from the oil filter reservoir, that would indicate the HPOP is not leaking but would it indicate that it is good?

I pulled the air hose off the fitting and put it back on again and I started hearing air leaking from the passenger side rail area. Not sure why it didn't show up the first time. I couldn't pinpoint exactly where until I got a piece of 3/8" clear hose and put one end in my ear and moved the other end around the rail to pinpoint where it was coming from. I found the leak to be coming from the #3 injector area.

Now my question is... can an injector be so bad as to let pressure through? I know there is a rubber seal at the top of the injector that could be damaged, right? But outside of that, could an injector be bad elsewhere and allow leaking?

I figure it's either the cup seal (which I just replaced brand new) or the injector or injector seal.

Would you suggest replacing the seal on the injector before moving forward or is it safe to say I need to replace the injector itself?
 

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Sometimes in an air test it takes a while to push the oil out of the system before you hear a leak. You hear the click when air is first flowing through the IPR and then it is closed.

The top injector seal is a common place to leak. It is somewhat tricky to replace. You have to make sure the snap ring doesn't drop down into the engine, so I would only recommend changing it out with the injector removed (so you will need to re-seal it).

There are youtube videos showing it.
 

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Discussion Starter #29
Thanks Bismic, I'll get the seal kit and replace it tonight to see how the air test performs again.

One other question. I'm assuming I should hear air until the IPR is closed, right?
Thanks,
 

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With the IPR open the air leak is internal to the HPOP so its harder to hear but you can still hear it. FWIW, Forscan won't let me use 100% as the IPR duty cycle - 99 is OK but 100 is no go. Auto Enginuity may be different.
 

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With the IPR open the air leak is internal to the HPOP so its harder to hear but you can still hear it. FWIW, Forscan won't let me use 100% as the IPR duty cycle - 99 is OK but 100 is no go. Auto Enginuity may be different.
good to know about ForScan - thanks
 

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Discussion Starter #32
Can you tell me if the following is accurate:

Once you energize the IPR > 85% closed
If you hear air within both of the valve covers, the leak is on of the following (STC fitting, Injector Seal, Dummy Plug, Stand Pipe)
If you hear air within the Oil Filter Reservoir, the leak is the HPOP
 

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Discussion Starter #33
Hmmm, So I torqued the Ball Tube Retaining nuts down to 70ft/lb but I just saw a couple of other posts indicating they should be torqued to 100ft/lb.... I guess I'm going to take the rail out and tighten them up a bit more to see if that fixes the leak I'm hearing at Injector #3... I'll most likely replace the injector seal at that time as well to make sure I won't have to take it off again... well, lesson the chances I'll have to take it off again.

I'll update...
 

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Discussion Starter #34
I took the rail out and torqued the Ball Tubes down to 100ft/lbs... it didn't really turn a lot to get from 70ft/lbs to 100ft/lbs maybe a 1/16th of an inch...


Regardless, in taking the oil rail out, I noticed the "new" stand pipe and dummy pipe seal rings had nicks in them. I just put them in, new, yesterday. Now I'm wondering if I should put another set of new ones in... I got these from Sinister Diesel when I purchased a few other items...
 

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I have not been impressed w/ the quality of parts from Sinister - especially the soft goods like gaskets and o-rings. When they say OEM parts, IMO they are not always completely truthful .......
 

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Discussion Starter #36 (Edited)
@bismic, I am beginning to agree with you. I had two sets of Stand Pipes and Dummy plugs, so I put the 2nd set in. Same thing happened and a leak was heard around the stand pipe. I put the old one back in and it went in easily and removed the leak.

Having said that: I need some advice. After I replaced the stand pipe and dummy plug with the old set, I didn't hear any leaks around those. I also changed the top seal, on injector #3, and that leak is gone... but I now have a leak on injector #1. Is it really possible? Maybe it is a stupid question. Maybe I should have been more patient and changed the top seals on all the injectors. I guess there is another possibility... The air that I hear coming out of the injectors is a sign that the STC fitting is bad. There is a change in the air leak when I put the IPR closed. What do you think?


I guess I'm going to purchase a new set of Stand Pipes. I have seen a set of seals and washers for the stand pipes and dummy plugs. Has anyone had any experience with those? Is it advisable to use those or simply get a new set of pipes/plugs?


Thanks for all your advice thus far...

Believe it or not, the Motorcraft OEM parts are cheaper than the Sinister Diesel parts....
 

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Discussion Starter #37
I removed the remaining injectors and changed the orings and the seals. I replace them all, torqued to 26ft/lbs, put the rail back in, torqued to 10ft/lbs... and there is still a leak around the 2nd Injector on the passenger side (Injector #3). I looked a forum which indicated, after putting new seals on, you have to run the engine a while before the seals will seat correctly...

anyone hear of such a thing? I guess I could just put the everything back together, less the valve cover, and see if it will start...

Any other suggestions, thoughts?
 

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I don't think that injector o-ring leakage is really connected to an STC fitting issue.

I have always installed new dummy plugs - never installed just the o-rings / d-rings.

You might get a leaking injector o-ring to "seat-in" after running it, but I wouldn't bet on it. It is true that it is harder to leak w/ oil than it is with air, but remember how much more oil pressure there is. It wouldn't hurt to try starting it w/ the valve cover off.
 

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Discussion Starter #39
I tend to agree with you.. (STC Fitting being the cause of the injectors leaking). It really can't as the injectors are fed directly from the rail and it wouldn't matter if the stc fitting was bad or not, it would leak... maybe less if the stc fitting was bad.

Having said that, where does the air come out if the STC fitting is bad? I can't "see" the leak but have pin-pointed it to "I believe" it is the injector (right now just the #3). If it were the stc fittings, would it be more of an air leak all over the valve area?

Regardless, I'll be putting the parts back on tomorrow (less the valve cover) to see if it will start now. I can't see why it would since it doesn't seem like I've done anything to lesson any leaking I had...

Can anyone confirm that air coming out of the oil filter reservoir would be an indication of a bad HPOP?

Thanks,
 

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that is how to condemn an hpop. hopefully you don't have an hpop issue, they aren't too terribly common for 05 and up.
 
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