I went to my dealer yesterday afternoon right as they were closing. My intent was to go prowl the lot to see if they had a black '08 Lariat in stock. They did, and I hopped out to have a look. One of the sales managers walked by, on his way out to his car, and asked if I saw (We'll call the truck owner, XYZ for privacy reasons) XYZ'z truck parked by the service door. I looked over and sure enough, there it was. A black '08 Lariat, lifted with 37's on it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smokin.gif I knew (of) the guy that owns the truck and the sales manager knew it. He ( the sales manager) also knew my 6.0 is mod'd and knew I was looking to get into a 6.4. He told me "well.... XYZ's truck is f%@#*ed." He proceeded to tell me that XYZ straight piped it, cutting out the DPF and Cat all togather. (Not sure if any electronics were installed) The sales manager said the truck smokes, even at idle and produces no power. XYZ had to trailer the vehicle in. He said they are going to try to warantee the repair for him but it wasn't looking good. I'll get the rest of the story from a guy I know there, when the verdict comes down from Ford. It'll be interesting to see what exactly happened to the motor and Ford's reaction to the claim. I'll keep you posted.
Oops!
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I liked how that guy in the video shuts down the engine with the turbos spooled WAY up and you can hear them wind down for MANY seconds. I don't suspect them to last long with that type of treatment . . . and he'll be the first to complain when they won't warranty the turbo failure.
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2,570 Posts
with coumpound turbos the spool down is longer and much more pronounced as the first turbo is still pushing the second turbo under pressure albeit not much pressure but enough to spin it a bit.
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361 Posts
I don't understand what was wrong with that shut down?
Your turbo continues to turn after shut down too. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif
He just made it happen a little longer to get the effect of the sound. If the turbo can't take that kind of a shut down, the 6.4L guys are in big trouble. It's not like he just got done pulling max gross up a mountain and then quickly shut her down.
Again, cool vid. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
He just made it happen a little longer to get the effect of the sound. If the turbo can't take that kind of a shut down, the 6.4L guys are in big trouble. It's not like he just got done pulling max gross up a mountain and then quickly shut her down.
Again, cool vid. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
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230 Posts
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Your turbo continues to turn after shut down too. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif
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DUH!
Since a turning turbo is no problem without a constant oil feed, from now on start your truck with the accelerator pressed all the way down and hold it against the governor for 30 seconds.
Stolen from the net:
Take steps to reduce temperatures and speeds from their maximums before shutting the engine down. turbochargers operate at speeds and continuous temperatures that are higher than most other machines. . . . This may require operation at medium idle or at "light load" conditions while still maintaining full engine oil pressure and airflow over the cooling system. Following these guidelines will prevent prolonged turbocharger rotation without lubrication and the formation of carbon deposits that can form as residual oil is decomposed in the bearings and center housing (heat soak-back).
Your turbo continues to turn after shut down too. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
DUH!
Since a turning turbo is no problem without a constant oil feed, from now on start your truck with the accelerator pressed all the way down and hold it against the governor for 30 seconds.
Stolen from the net:
Take steps to reduce temperatures and speeds from their maximums before shutting the engine down. turbochargers operate at speeds and continuous temperatures that are higher than most other machines. . . . This may require operation at medium idle or at "light load" conditions while still maintaining full engine oil pressure and airflow over the cooling system. Following these guidelines will prevent prolonged turbocharger rotation without lubrication and the formation of carbon deposits that can form as residual oil is decomposed in the bearings and center housing (heat soak-back).
Stalwart, you conveniently forgot the middle part of that snip-it....
"When an engine is run at maximum power/torque output, turbocharger speeds and temperatures are also at maximum. Problems can be caused for the engine and more so for the turbocharger when the engine is shut off at this point."
Obviously his turbo speed and temperature were not near maximum...His truck was sitting still! And although he revved the engine, he did not rev it high enough or long enough for the turbo to reach oil coking speeds or temps. Not even close.
So relax Stalwart. When the engine is shut off, oil remains at the turbo. It doesn't run dry. It's just not being renewed or circulated. Not a big deal if it's not hot or under load.
BTW don't forget this is the "Upgrade and Aftermarket" forum. You're going to see some crazy things here. Whining about "warranty" every time will run you into the ground. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
"When an engine is run at maximum power/torque output, turbocharger speeds and temperatures are also at maximum. Problems can be caused for the engine and more so for the turbocharger when the engine is shut off at this point."
Obviously his turbo speed and temperature were not near maximum...His truck was sitting still! And although he revved the engine, he did not rev it high enough or long enough for the turbo to reach oil coking speeds or temps. Not even close.
So relax Stalwart. When the engine is shut off, oil remains at the turbo. It doesn't run dry. It's just not being renewed or circulated. Not a big deal if it's not hot or under load.
BTW don't forget this is the "Upgrade and Aftermarket" forum. You're going to see some crazy things here. Whining about "warranty" every time will run you into the ground. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
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230 Posts
No, I simply shortened it so it didn't ramble on. I'm well aware of oil coking problems, and this isn't an issue, and I wasn't stating it as such. Oil doesn't "stay" in a turbo's bearing assembly, the exact opposite is true. Turbos must have a small quantity of oil supplied continuously for both cooling and lubrication and the typical turbo drain line is 3-4 times the size to accommodate the aerated oil (-3 for supply vs. -8 to -10 for drain). IF the turbos are both of the ball bearing variety, I can see no real harm but from the cutaways it seems not to be the case. Turbo bearings are not so much submerged in oil but sprayed and then the oil needs a way to drain away completely and quickly. Excessive oil leads to seal leakage and problems depending upon which side the leakage occurs.
I'm for mods of all sorts, this is the first vehicle I haven't supercharged, turbocharged or chipped in a VERY LONG time.
[ QUOTE ]
Obviously his turbo speed and temperature were not near maximum...His truck was sitting still! And although he revved the engine, he did not rev it high enough or long enough for the turbo to reach oil coking speeds or temps. Not even close.
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How do you know the turbo never reached a speed that could cause any wear from loss of oil? What data do you have to support this? I never made heat an issue because without a load there is simply no easy way for the turbo to get very hot on a Diesel engine, unlike it's gasoline brethren.
I'm for mods of all sorts, this is the first vehicle I haven't supercharged, turbocharged or chipped in a VERY LONG time.
[ QUOTE ]
Obviously his turbo speed and temperature were not near maximum...His truck was sitting still! And although he revved the engine, he did not rev it high enough or long enough for the turbo to reach oil coking speeds or temps. Not even close.
[/ QUOTE ]
How do you know the turbo never reached a speed that could cause any wear from loss of oil? What data do you have to support this? I never made heat an issue because without a load there is simply no easy way for the turbo to get very hot on a Diesel engine, unlike it's gasoline brethren.
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I'm well aware of oil coking problems, and this isn't an issue
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Sure it is. Shutting an engine off while the turbo is hot or under load can cause turbo wear. Much different than shutting the engine off while the turbo is cool and not loaded.
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Oil doesn't "stay" in a turbo's bearing assembly
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Yes it does. An oil layer remains between the bearing surface and rotating shaft. This is what protects it during shut down. That's what oil does. You act like the thing is grinding away metal to metal as soon as the engine stops. Not the case. Particularly if the turbo isn't hot or under load.
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the typical turbo drain line is 3-4 times the size to accommodate the aerated oil
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Actually most turbo returns are bigger because they rely on gravity, not pressure, to get the oil back to the sump. If the oil doesn't drain back fast enough it swamps the bearing and finds its way past the seal. Kinda like trying to pour oil down a small funnel...it wants to overflow.
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Turbo bearings are not so much submerged in oil but sprayed
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We call it bathed. "Spraying" requires a nozzle.
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What data do you have to support this?
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The same data your using to say it's not. BTW, what data did you use to support your statement that, "he'll be the first to complain when they won't warranty the turbo failure."
Quit whining Stalwart. It was a /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gifcool vid/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif. Lets not digress.
I'm well aware of oil coking problems, and this isn't an issue
[/ QUOTE ]
Sure it is. Shutting an engine off while the turbo is hot or under load can cause turbo wear. Much different than shutting the engine off while the turbo is cool and not loaded.
[ QUOTE ]
Oil doesn't "stay" in a turbo's bearing assembly
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes it does. An oil layer remains between the bearing surface and rotating shaft. This is what protects it during shut down. That's what oil does. You act like the thing is grinding away metal to metal as soon as the engine stops. Not the case. Particularly if the turbo isn't hot or under load.
[ QUOTE ]
the typical turbo drain line is 3-4 times the size to accommodate the aerated oil
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually most turbo returns are bigger because they rely on gravity, not pressure, to get the oil back to the sump. If the oil doesn't drain back fast enough it swamps the bearing and finds its way past the seal. Kinda like trying to pour oil down a small funnel...it wants to overflow.
[ QUOTE ]
Turbo bearings are not so much submerged in oil but sprayed
[/ QUOTE ]
We call it bathed. "Spraying" requires a nozzle.
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What data do you have to support this?
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The same data your using to say it's not. BTW, what data did you use to support your statement that, "he'll be the first to complain when they won't warranty the turbo failure."
Quit whining Stalwart. It was a /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gifcool vid/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif. Lets not digress.
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I liked how that guy in the video shuts down the engine with the turbos spooled WAY up and you can hear them wind down for MANY seconds. I don't suspect them to last long with that type of treatment . . . and he'll be the first to complain when they won't warranty the turbo failure.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well aren't we just a little presumptuous? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bleh.gif
Who are you to say that he will try this? You know him?
I liked how that guy in the video shuts down the engine with the turbos spooled WAY up and you can hear them wind down for MANY seconds. I don't suspect them to last long with that type of treatment . . . and he'll be the first to complain when they won't warranty the turbo failure.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well aren't we just a little presumptuous? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bleh.gif
Who are you to say that he will try this? You know him?
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101 Posts
When you are sitting still and revving the engine in neutral or park(not power braking), you don't make much, if any boost. If you are not making boost then the turbo is not spinning fast (relative to it's maximun spin rate).
The discussion wandered a bit, I'll try to bring it back on-topic.
I went to the dealer today and asked about the truck in question. I was told the dealership couldn't touch it because it was in violation of federal emissions regulations. They wouldn't work on the truck at all until the factory exhaust system was re-intalled. Once that happens, they can proceed with diagnosing the problem go from there.
I went to the dealer today and asked about the truck in question. I was told the dealership couldn't touch it because it was in violation of federal emissions regulations. They wouldn't work on the truck at all until the factory exhaust system was re-intalled. Once that happens, they can proceed with diagnosing the problem go from there.
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839 Posts
The owner should have reinstalled the stock goods before taking it back, unless the dealership is willing to help, which would be cool! I have known some great mod friendly dealers over the years.
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507 Posts
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He said they are going to try to warantee the repair for him
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It is @%%*$$)# dealers like this that make my and every other HONEST dealerships jobs harder. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif
edit:
Just read the rest of the thread and will say good on them but for the rest of the dealers out there that are allowing people to take the trucks waaaaaay past factory specs and then claiming it on warranty hope the inspectors and auditors are at your doors tommorrow....
He said they are going to try to warantee the repair for him
[/ QUOTE ]
It is @%%*$$)# dealers like this that make my and every other HONEST dealerships jobs harder. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif
edit:
Just read the rest of the thread and will say good on them but for the rest of the dealers out there that are allowing people to take the trucks waaaaaay past factory specs and then claiming it on warranty hope the inspectors and auditors are at your doors tommorrow....
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