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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello all, Been gone a while but bought a new to me 05 6.0 cc 4x4 Lariat, to replace my current 2001 7.3 Ext cab 4x4.

I have spent the last two weeks studying the forums about oil coolers and oil temps. I understand where I should be with the deltas and am here to get your opinion on my situation. I will try to keep this short to the point.

Details: The truck is my work truck. It gets plenty of highway and city miles. It, my trailer, and Ditch Witch machine tip the scales at 18,500 - 19,500 depending on load out. I hardly drive the truck with out the trailer attached.

History: Truck has 257,000 miles I bought if from a friend who bought it with 196000 so I kinda know the ins and outs of the truck... that is why I was willing to buy a 6.0 again...

Ok the facts: 214000 HG Gone overhauled with ford parts; oil cooler, head gasket kit, also front plate and water pump. Also at that time it got Sinister EGR delete kit, injectors cleaned with Revx.

Currently I am watching the deltas with the xgauge and waiting on the edge cts II Pro to show up in morning.

The deltas started at less than 15 degrees in 80 outside temp, but as the weather has gotten warmer up to 90's I see that the deltas stayed in the 12 - 16 range which I wasn't too concerned because I am towing and I dont really baby this thing, but I was getting concerned when I started seeing 230 EOT.

Ok the last two days the weather has been cooler mid 70's and not as humid and I see the deltas are creeping up to 20 but I am contributing that to the cooler weather, resulting in a lower ECT but yet the same EOT's. I live in Eastern Iowa and have plenty of rolling hills but no huge mountains to worry about.

I called the place in Texas that did the work and they cant tell me the name of the anti freeze they are using but said it "was a product that can be used in all vehicles" what it is I dont know. So I plan on doing the "Flush" restore and restore plus to get back to original condition because I think that the ECT seems pretty high compared to my old 03 and I dont like to see it at 220 at times. I installed the coolant filter and have a 1000 miles on it, I tore it open tonight and I am glad to see that there is no slimy goo in there but I did find casting sand. I have yet to determine if this is a good thing or bad thing.

I think but am not sure, I am afraid the cooler is getting to the point of replacement but am not sure. What are your thoughts on the subject.

Here are the Pics of the Coolant Filter.
 

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My 04 is in the shop right now getting a new oil cooler and a egr tube (sinister), my temps before I took it in to the shop last week towing a steep grade with exterior temps in the 90's were as high as ECT 230, EOT 255. The week before the ECT temps went as high as 240, I changed the coolant cap to a Stant cap (16psi) and the temps were much better, but the high oil temps made me unhappy. So now I get to shovel $$$$ into the 6.0
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Captrick, Thanks for your data points, I will use them in my understanding of my towing situation.


Others, I have been thinking, yea I know the wife tells me that can be dangerous. But originally I only bought the restore plus in hopes of not needing the restore because I do not believe I have the ford gold in the system. The coolant that is in there has only 40,000 miles on it, if that makes any difference I dont know.

So my questions are: With the condition of the filter and the absence of goo, does this confirm my suspicions that I do not have "gold"?

Also If I dont have the goo and no "gold", do I still need to do the restore flush or can i move strait to the Restore Plus flush stage?

Also what are the chances I will still have to do the cooler afterwards? I do plan on using the whole house filter Idea when I am doing the flushes in hopes of catching any troubles before it plugs the cooler.

Thanks for you consideration, and thoughts on the subject.

Clint
 

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First off, it sounds like the shop performing the work put regular 'green' coolant in your cooling system. From what I've read, this can destabilize a happy cooling system and cause all sorts of junk to get dislodged. There's two coolants they should of used, a Cat EC-1 spec coolant(usually red), or the Ford gold coolant. Either of those is fine to run, the Ford gold coolant just requires more frequent regular maintenance. I've seen places that say if you see green, change it. The wrong coolant will damage your cooling system, hurt your oil cooler, and lead to higher temperatures.

To your point about the oil cooler, diagnosing a bad oil cooler before it's actually completely plugged up seems impossible.

I have similar thoughts on my mind about the whole situation. Unhooked, my truck never sees an ECT/EOT delta greater than 8 degrees in AZ heat. In stop and go traffic, temperatures are within a degree or two. However, once I'm putting a 19.5k fifth wheel behind the truck, in certain situations that 15 degree delta mark is just ridiculously easy to hit. A slow short pull on a steep hill will easily bring EOT temperatures up 20 degrees passed ECT, and at one point I have seen it hit the 230 degree mark for my truck. However, with a small load of 8k, temperatures never hit the 15 degree mark.

In my mind, I see two situations here. My oil cooler is plugged slightly, even with an IPR heater hose filter. The other is that the oil cooler just isn't efficient enough on these trucks for serious loads. The latter I doubt, the 6.0 was used in much heavier trucks than an F350 with the same cooler design, especially trucks where 20k is a medium load.

Most of these guides about the 15 degree delta test, which usually specify a testing situation of unloaded w/ constant throttle at highway speeds, just isn't adequate when comparing to a 16k+ load. I also think anything over 235 is just bonkers for temperature. From what I've gathered, all you can do is keep an eye on your EOT. At 240 most engine oils will begin to break down. My vote is that once a 230 oil temp is the norm, or you begin to exceed that threshold just too easily, then your oil cooler is toast.
 

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First off. Ford and IH designed it too run oil temp up to 250* before it is to de-rate the hp. 250* is not that hot of oil temp for an engine regardless of what people think on here. Cummins has done wear studies on their engines with oil temps as high as 300* for 1,000 of hours with no mechanical failures because of oil degradation. This is why I think that the hype of syn oil is mostly marketing hype.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
raptor

"Most of these guides about the 15 degree delta test, which usually specify a testing situation of unloaded w/ constant throttle at highway speeds, just isn't adequate when comparing to a 16k+ load. I also think anything over 235 is just bonkers for temperature. From what I've gathered, all you can do is keep an eye on your EOT. At 240 most engine oils will begin to break down. My vote is that once a 230 oil temp is the norm, or you begin to exceed that threshold just too easily, then your oil cooler is toast."


I think you put into words my thoughts exactly, I think that a trend is much better than a point test. I will watch the temps and make a educated guess after I get the coolant flush done.

Also thanks for the heads up on the coolant, but after two weeks of studying the boards I am on board with the Rotelia ELC.


Hauler, Thank you for your insight into oil temps. When I started this research (all on this forum) I was too afraid of 230 and then as I continue to read and looking into oil temps, I have become more relaxed especially when I read that Rotelia doesn't start to break down until of crap I forget the number now but it was over 300 degrees, I think it was 310. So I do appreciate your thoughts on oil and your post has also been elighting and inspired me to do some real research into oil, outside of this forum. Thank you.

Others, does anyone else having anything to offer? I am still up for your insights.

Thank you

Clint
 

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With an EGR delete the 15 degree delta becomes an unreliable means by which to determine OC health. The cooling system has been modified, and a major source of heat loading has been decoupled from it. Consequently I would not longer think in terms of delta, but rather in terms of fluid temperatures viewed separately.

Unloaded, even is stifling ambient temperatures the coolant temp in a 6.0 shouldn't even break 200. Oil temp won't be far from that either, typically in the mid 190s.

Now, when towing, especially a heavy load, the temperatures are going to creep up. That's why the 6.0 has a cooling system that holds 7 gallons and an oiling system that holds 4 gallons. Now oil, which does a lot of the cooling for the engine is simply not as good at rejecting heat as coolant. So when the truck is working its not uncommon to see EOT higher than ECT.

So what's an acceptable temperature? Based on system pressure you should not have a boil over issue with the 6.0 until ECT hits 250. So, in truth, anything below that is okay. You don't really gain anything by the system being cool, in fact you lose efficiency.

As for EOT, the system will derate at anything 250 or above. What you must understand is that when the system sees 250 at the sender there are places in the oil system where the temperature is already well past 300. I would not take a chance with something as cheap as oil, and as expensive as an engine and always advise that if the truck experiences a derate due to oil temperature change the oil as soon as possible. Overly cautious? Maybe, but oil is cheap, and engines are expensive.

From a fluid perspective oil really operates most efficiently in the 200-220 degree range. Once oil hits 240 the process of thermal breakdown begins, the rate of which increases exponentially with every ten degree increment from there on up. I would certainly never run oil at 300 degrees and feel safe, unless that manufacturer had specifically stated that it was acceptable. I've yet to see that from a manufacturer regardless of conventional vs. synthetic, etc. In racing you run coolers on everything that uses oil, from the engine to the trans to the rear. That oil film is the only thing keeping all those components operational, and should it overheat and break down you're going to be on the trailer early that day with your pockets turned inside out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Results

Ok this is a follow up will be for FYI.

So I basically did the 2 stroker coolant flush with some added portions of my own. Basically I bought a new upper radiator hose so that I could cut my old one up to install and whole house water filter. And also to allow me to reverse flush the coolant system. I also did not use the restore, I used the restore plus. Mostly because I did not have ford gold and no sludge or any signs of the need for it.

I did however run into a problem, nothing big but I did not get the run time I would have liked with the restore plus. Basically I had the drain on the block open with a hose attached and I would instead of climbing under truck to drain I would pinch off the hose with a zip tie and then cut it to drain it. But when I got into it about the 40 min at temp, the hose got warm enough to flex too much and the hose clamp on the drain let loose and I had to end the run because I was blowing out the coolant and could not get under truck to close the valve for obvious reasons. So I hoped I had enough time on the run and decided to continue with the steps and then finished and topped with the Rotellia ELC, red.

So my results, at first I really like my coolant temps, they were much closer to what I thought they should be( near what my old 03 was at). But the oil Coolant was almost thru the roof at max up to 246 degrees. So it was my conclusion that there was no heat exchange between the oil and the coolant thru the oil cooler, which is most likely due to blockage from the cleaning.

So I decided to nurse the truck and see about getting time to do the oil cooler. Mostly because the temps didn't just shoot up to 246 at first, it seemed the more I drove it then the next time the oil temp would be higher, then next time higher, then eventually to 246. But to my surprise that is where it stopped at. So I thought I can make it a while as long as I watch it like a hawk.

Then I didn't do anything except drive the truck, and the next thing I know the oil temp is not reaching as high, and it eventually works it way back down to the exact same temps as it was before I did the flush. As for the coolant temp, well they went up, well you guessed it the heat exchange was happening. Where did they go up to, yep same temps as before I did the flush.

So in conclusion, I am not going to stress over the oil temps, especially after doing some research on oil temps and also from the fact that my Harley wants an oil temp of 250 as its operating oil temp to set the idle. I was getting worked up over oil temps from reading too much here about "230 is too high and it should be change immediately" well ford is not to concerned about 230 and doesn't defuel until 250. So unless I start seeing it in the 250 range on a regular basis I am not going to do the oil cooler.

With that said I am happy I did the flush, I think that my coolant temps run a degree or two cooler, but more importantly I think the numbers come down much faster and sooner than before the flush.

I hope this helps anyone looking into doing the flush, yes it took all day and I tried to stay dry, but that didn't happen mostly because of the failure of the hose. I think I will do it again this winter when the truck is not being used and make sure that I get the full run time at operating temp, which I think I only really missed 15-20 minutes. But I was starting to see more particulate coming thru my clear hose into the whole house filter, so maybe there is more scale and rust to come out. Plus I really didn't get that much crap into the whole house filter when I was done and examined the filter.

Thank you to all who commented, and as well to others who have asked and answered question on this site that allowed me to search for answers.

Good day.
Clint
 

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Ultimately its your truck, but I wouldn't put a lot of value in what Ford wants/says. Ford wants a truck to last through the warranty period without problems. After that, they'd like it to explode so you need to buy a new vehicle. If they build vehicles that last forever no one ever needs a new one other than to keep up with the Joneses.

Also, Ford didn't build the 6.0; IH did. Time and again there have been problems with the 6.0 because IH has designed the engine to produce about 265HP, but Ford wasn't happy with that because it wouldn't compete with the new D-Max and Cummins trucks, so they adjusted the fueling to get 325HP. Issues like HGs are much more prevalent in F-series trucks and X's because they run the 325 tuning, whereas in the E series they run closer to the IH spec and have far fewer problems.

Its worth noting that IH put a coolant filter on the 6.0, and Ford deleted it to save money. Then, after all this Ford sued IH and ultimately decided to just build its own engine (enter the 6.7). If the engine had stayed as IH intended I think there'd be far fewer issues. Ford caused those issues, so I'm not to keen on thinking Ford knows what's best for the 6.0.

The 250 degree derate in a last ditch effort to save the engine, so even Ford doesn't think this is okay for any length of time. Remember, if its seeing 250 at the sensor its 300 elsewhere in the system.

I don't have a ton of experience with Harleys, but I know a few things about them. First off they're an air cooled engine, which means that the oil does a lot more of the cooling in that engine than in a 6.0. The oil is going to run hotter in an air cooled engine, so that's kind of an apples and oranges comparison.

Second, Harleys typically run 20W50 oil, which is considerably thicker than 15W40 or the 5W40 a lot of us run. Thicker oil thins less from heat, so higher temperatures are less concerning with a 50W oil vs. a 40W oil. 6.0 s also have a know problem with oil shearing, meaning that they cut down the viscosity of the oil, and in pretty short order they are turning that 40W oil into a 30W oil. This further compounds the problem.

The big concern for me is not the bearings, bottom end, cam, etc.; its the injectors. 6.0s have know issues with stiction caused by oil varnish. That varnish is the result of overheated oil, and/or broken down oil from lack of maintenance. With sticks at $1,500 a set I would be careful playing Russian Roulette with my oil.

In the end, oil is cheap, engines are expensive. Oil coolers a cheap, and injectors are expensive. All I can do is offer advice and put knowledge out there. Everyone has to make their own decisions, whether I agree with them or not. That's the beauty of America. Not trying to get on a stump about it, but it is closing in on the 239th anniversary of the day our forefathers decided that was a better way to live, so I'm not being snide or sarcastic about it; I completely support it. I wouldn't, you will, maybe we'll argue about it, but that's as far as it needs to go. Live and let live, and I'm stopping before I start singing the Star Spangled Banner.
 
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