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Mods and TDS forum members, If I want to discuss how the CK-4 will affect older Ford engines such as the 7.3 PSD, should I begin a new thread in that specific forum?

Many of us use the Shell Rotella T-6 and the issue of low Phosphorous content in the new CK-4 rated oils should concern all of us diesel owners, right?

http://rotella.shell.com/media/2016/fords-position-statement.html

Thanks
 

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Mods and TDS forum members, If I want to discuss how the CK-4 will affect older Ford engines such as the 7.3 PSD, should I begin a new thread in that specific forum?

Many of us use the Shell Rotella T-6 and the issue of low Phosphorous content in the new CK-4 rated oils should concern all of us diesel owners, right?

http://rotella.shell.com/media/2016/fords-position-statement.html

Thanks
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4301114/2/CK-4_in_older_diesel_tractors?

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4260036/Powerstroke_6.0_engine:_What_d#Post4260036
 

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I just put 13 quarts in my 6.7 of a relatively new oil recommended by my tribologist, Terry Dyson of DysonAnalysis.com ...

RLI 15w-40 HDMO low ash and the Amsoil EAo filter.

The problem is ... when I drained the Ford oil (I'd been having their service department change mine as I discovered how fast the oil drains i these things last year) ... it overflowed a 15 quart old school drain pan. Has anyone had their 6.7 over serviced?

I'd be concerned about fuel dilution creating this volume, but that's a LOTTA fuel ... 3-5 quarts in 5000K miles and 3 months.

Thanks,

Al
 

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I'd be concerned about fuel dilution creating this volume, but that's a LOTTA fuel ... 3-5 quarts in 5000K miles and 3 months.
If you had that much fuel in the oil, the viscosity would have been catastrophically reduced and consequently the engine would have likely failed--especially if it is being operated under a load. I would DEFINITELY perform a UOA on the oil going forward to understand what is happening.
 

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The problem is ... when I drained the Ford oil (I'd been having their service department change mine as I discovered how fast the oil drains i these things last year) ... it overflowed a 15 quart old school drain pan. Has anyone had their 6.7 over serviced?

I'd be concerned about fuel dilution creating this volume, but that's a LOTTA fuel ... 3-5 quarts in 5000K miles and 3 months.

Thanks,

Al
I would start checking my oil level daily.
 

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Here is a nice article that gives a good overview of the "issue" and Ford's stance. It seems that by April we should have an overall decision from Ford about CK-4 oils.
Thanks, that was a good read. Seems like the issue is with multi-vehicle oils that are rated for both CK-4 (diesel) and SN (gas) engines. The SN rating for gas engines has a lower allowed level of phosphors and is what the valve train on the 6.7 needs for wear protection.

So if you see an oil with a CK-4 and SN API rating, stay away from that. CK-4 (with no mention of multi-use or any S rating) should be OK.

I'm no expert, just how I read it.

This article confirms my thoughts and has updates (January 2017).

An interesting paragraph from this reads "Further clarification from the American Petroleum Institute. They tell us that 40-weight diesel engine oils (such as 5W-40, 15W-40, 0W-40) can have both the API CK-4 and API SN specs and still abide by the higher API CK-4 phosphorus limit. On the other hand, 0W-30, 5W-30 and 10W-30 engine oils carrying both the API SN and API CK-4 specs have to abide by the lower SN phosphorous limit of 800 ppm.

So make sure you read the labels when buying oil.
 

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My local WalMart still has CJ-4 Rotella T6 on the shelf.

No mention of CK-4 on the 1-gallon jug anywhere but the jug has a new shape.

Am I reading this right? The circle or starburst indicates API CJ-4/SM.
 

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My local WalMart still has CJ-4 Rotella T6 on the shelf.

No mention of CK-4 on the 1-gallon jug anywhere but the jug has a new shape.

Am I reading this right? The circle or starburst indicates API CJ-4/SM.
The new T6 jugs have the new CK4 in them, even though the new jugs still say CJ4. VOAs have confirmed this. Less P and less Zn. They are legally allowed to do this, but this is the stuff Ford is telling us not to use for now.
 

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The new T6 jugs have the new CK4 in them, even though the new jugs still say CJ4. VOAs have confirmed this. Less P and less Zn. They are legally allowed to do this, but this is the stuff Ford is telling us not to use for now.
Thanks for this info.

I would never have known based on the label.
 

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Wow its good I check the forums. Might be a good idea for them to send something out to all 6.7 owners. I was a T6 guy 10w-30 what is everyone switching to then? Looked at the list never heard of any of those that qualify.
 

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I'm still going to use Rotella T6 5w-40. Shell is confident that Ford will approve their oil and based on the article I posted a few posts above, ?w-40 oils that are CK-4/SN approved are allowed to have the higher phosphate levels.

It also appears that Shell has two formulas for T6:

Heavy Duty Diesel Engine Oil Products | Shell ROTELLA®

T6 HDEO - rated API: CK-4, CJ-4, CI-4 PLUS, CI-4, CH-4 (note there is no SM or SN rating on this)
T6 Multi-Vehicle oil - rated API CK-4, API SN

If I'm reading this correctly, I would stay away from the multi-vehicle oil for Powerstrokes. What has me confused though is the landing page above, the text for both of these oils states meeting CK-4 and SN. I think (hope) that is a mistake since clicking in on the first shows no SN rating.
 

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Over the years I and others have tested oils on site in some of the most powerful Pulling / Race engines in N/A, it seems that oils for extreme conditions with high levels of Zinc and moly reduce wear better than other additives. So if you use lube with high levels of those additives wear won't be a problem even with PHO levels at 700-800PPM . If Ford doesn't want to get on board Fine, but Maybe Ford should disclose the additive package they recommend, Not rating.

On edit: (others)
 

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I went to Walmart today and looked on the back of Rotella T6. it said CJ-4, CI-4 Plus,CI-4,CH-4/SM. But nothing about CK-4. So does this meet the ford spec? See attached photo.
 

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I went to Walmart today and looked on the back of Rotella T6. it said CJ-4, CI-4 Plus,CI-4,CH-4/SM. But nothing about CK-4. So does this meet the ford spec? See attached photo.
In theory, yes. I say this because Shell commented in Q3 of 2016 that CK-4 oil would be in the jugs before the end of 2016 without CK-4 markings on the jug. The new CK-4 bottles look like this:




The PDS for the "old" T6 had the Ford specification listed in it:

Rotella T6 CJ-4
 

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I went to Walmart today and looked on the back of Rotella T6. it said CJ-4, CI-4 Plus,CI-4,CH-4/SM. But nothing about CK-4. So does this meet the ford spec? See attached photo.
No.

Please read through earlier posts. Shell has beein substituting new CK-4/SN into the Bottles labeled CJ-4/SM.

This has been determined by oil analysis.
 

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Personally, I highly doubt Shell have been packaging CK-4 in CJ-4 bottles. That could create a law suit if something happened anyone's engine and it was due to this false labeling/advertising. Plastics can be recycled very easily now days, so, why would Shell risk a law suit? Think this is merely a myth following about the internet.

Why not call Shell and ask them?

Have a Technical Question about a Shell Lubricant Product?

  • 800-237-8645

Shells info page on CK-4


http://rotella.shell.com/products/pc-11.html
 

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In theory, yes. I say this because Shell commented in Q3 of 2016 that CK-4 oil would be in the jugs before the end of 2016 without CK-4 markings on the jug. The new CK-4 bottles look like this:




The PDS for the "old" T6 had the Ford specification listed in it:

Rotella T6 CJ-4
That is a photo of the current T6 jug for CJ-4 oils. That is NOT a CK-4 jug unless Shell intends to use the same front label.

Shell ROTELLA® T6 Full Synthetic Heavy Duty Engine Oil | Shell ROTELLA®
 

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T-6 is great oil if FORD makes claims that LOW PHOS oils increase wear they had better be able to provide what additive level it was cause at, (NOT the rating's) T-6 has high levels of Moly, Zinc. which decrease wear and increase protection, even if the PHOS was cut for 900PPM to 300PPM T-6 additive is still one of the best lubes in the world... I believe this is deception on Fords part. Until Ford publishes the additive levels its just more corporate BS.
 
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