[Gator5713]

Getting ready to replace the injectors in my 2000 F350 with 330k miles.
I know what I think I 'should' do, but am on a budget so I'm debating with myself and figured I'd see what y'all think.
My degas bottle seems to be building too much pressure, but isn't getting any fuel in it. It does seem to have a touch of oil in it but it's had that since I rebuilt the oil cooler a couple months ago and I've attributed it to residual from that as it doesn't seem to be getting any more oil.
I have a new degas bottle and cap to install as my old one is old and once the truck is warm it bloats up like a balloon!
So, I'm curious as to what is causing this or if the old bottle is simply worn out and can't handle the regular system pressure.
My thought is that maybe a cup has lifted or cracked in just exactly the right spot to not allow coolant / fuel transfer but compression gas is getting through? If this is a viable possibility then I 'should' simply replace all my cups along with the injectors, right? If not then how long can I reasonably expect the original 330k cups to last if I leave them alone and just replace the injectors. I know I've done several injector jobs without ever touching cups, but I've also done injectors because it was just time to do them and I had to go in anyway to fix cups......
Someone please confirm or deny or just call me an idiot for debating this.....
Thanks.

 

[RT]

Your cap should vent pressure long before the bottle deforms. I suspect the degas bottle is weak and your cap isn't venting. I would replace the degas canister and put on the new cap. No fuel - no injector cup issue. Trust me - when you get an injector cup crack - that 60 psi of fuel gets into the coolant.

 

[Gator5713]

That's what I was thinking RT. Just arguing with myself....
I figure you, Nick, and kl would set me straight and if all 3 of you agree then I run out of argument...

 

[Greg03PSD]

I had an injector cup crack. The degas bottle filled up all the way but the cap relieved the pressure. With the engine running, I could see a constant small stream of fluid (mostly diesel fuel) flowing from under the cap. The fan does quite a good job of spreading the fuel out over everything under the hood. If your bottle is deforming, I would also agree that your cap is not working properly.

 

[Gator5713]

I am fully aware of what a cracked cup does. I've dealt with that many times. I have a new bottle and new cap. I know what I'd tell a customer. But this is my personal truck so....

 

[Gator5713]

Should be pulling it apart today. Praying the cups are good as I haven't ordered new ones and can't afford to have the truck down very long at all as my spare vehicles are down at the moment as well. Was hoping to have the one back together before tearing this one down but the turbo is gonna be about 10 days getting rebuilt and back and don't want to wait that long to start on this one! Say a prayer for me!

 

[Gator5713]

I'm not sure how much you can really tell from these pictures but I had just shut the truck off. Once it cools down the fluid will be back down to the cold line and the tank will look mostly normal again.

 

[Maryland dieselnick]

Lifted cups can do crazy stuff.
I'll expand on this a little.
You could hook up a Stant Ford bottle adapter and tester. You might pickup on compression coming thru a lifted cup. I had a truck with a lifted cup in a fresh out of crate Blackwater long block about a year ago. It would squirt in but not register compression to coolant pressure rise.
If the cup is not cracked you might not see fluids cross into each other.
You might be able to manipulate the condition by pressurizing the system to see white smoke or to visually see coolant squirting into the combustion chamber with the injectors out.
That age and miles...I'm selling; cups, injector sonic cleaning with flow testing, new degas bottle, new battery terminals ( yours are atrocious ), new uvc harness, glow plugs gaskets, cooling system flush and ELC conversion.
I am scared to ask for an engine harness pic.lol

 

[Gator5713]

Compression #s came back good! You'd probably be suprised at the condition of basically everything on this truck, Nick! Harness looks good! The turbo has zero play and looks great! Even the uvch and gasket look good! The glow plugs had a little buildup on the ends but really nothing concerning at all. This truck doesn't smoke at all out the oil tube...
I looked at the pressure tester at autozone today and it didn't have the adapter for the ford...
The factory original injectors are coming out in the morning. (I have a box from full force full of shiny remans!).
I have a riff raff box with new degas bottle, cap, and FRx.
My Amazon cart has a set of up pipes sitting in it waiting on my injector deposit to come back..
The next round of free cash will likely see a completely new battery cable set but for now I'll keep rebuilding as necessary. (I actually keep a spare set of terminal clamps in the truck.)

 

[Gator5713]

Unfortunately my typical shop space has a dodge in pieces waiting on parts so I'm in a bit of a cramped and non ideal work space but at least I'm under cover and have the cutest big little helper writing down my compression #s for me!

 

[Gator5713]

Not that any of y'all needed proof but here's to show that you don't actually absolutely know anything until you absolutely know it!
This truck had somewhere in the ball park of 160kish miles when I bought it. I know the previous owner and they got it at around 100kish. I don't think they did an injector job, or at least not a complete one, but the #8 has obviously been swapped out at some point or another! Or somehow this truck left the factory with all ADs and no AE!

 

[Gator5713]

Amazingly the orings are all still intact, although I wouldn't call them good. But with as clogged up as the nozzles are I'm amazed this thing was running anywhere near as good as it was much less at all!

 

[79jasper]

I thought the AE (LL) was a tsb type of thing.
Where they only installed it if it came in with a cackle complaint.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

 

[Gator5713]

I thought the AE (LL) was a tsb type of thing.
Where they only installed it if it came in with a cackle complaint.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

I know for sure that they installed them at the factory but I don't know when they started doing that. Mine is a 2000 model (engine sticker says Sept 99) so I suppose it is possible! I know that nothing appears to have ever been apart before and I can personally vouch for it since 160kish... but unless someone can confirm when they started doing the AE from the factory we may never know!

 

[Gator5713]

Cups all 'look' good so I'm saying a prayer and thanking the good Lord for his provision and installing the new injectors!

 

[Gator5713]

All back together and running beautifully!
(Pro tip: as you are going back together, before installing the glow plugs, cycle the starter several 10-15 second cycles to start working the air out of the oil system without the compression load on the motor! Only took 3 - 10 sec cycles to fire up after everything was back together!)

Made a good 35 miles worth of hard running, all the white smoke has cleared out but still have quite a bit of black smoke on hard acceleration. (I know that I probably still need to run another 20-30 hard miles to make sure it's cleared out.)
I'm thinking that my leaking up pipes may be contributing to an 'over fueling' situation due to lowered boost?
New degas bottle and cap seemed perfectly normal after my run! Yay!

 

[Gator5713]

I still haven't had time to get to my up pipes and the truck is running great, but...
I have constant black smoke. Under normal driving and idle it's hard to see but it's definitely noticeable on acceleration and if I mash on it it looks like I'm trying to fit in with the coal roller dodge kids...
And a new development when I start up in the morning and for about 10-15 miles the ses will go on and off several times. It doesn't stay on long and my code reader doesn't pick it up. I haven't had a chance to get to a scanner yet. Any ideas?

 

[wfdbackdraft]

Hey Gator,
I have been having the same issue with my truck for some time now. A sooty film in my degas bottle, and it cracked from what appeared to be too much pressure. I pulled all 8 injectors, and a few of them were loose. One had burned the lower portion and charred the lower injector O-ring. After I cleaned the cup, I could see that the cup had a noticeable crack in it. The crack seems to travel up enough to maybe get into the coolant passage, but not above the fuel O-ring.

So if anyone is searching for our same symptoms, you can have a cracked cup without diesel getting into the coolant. It's just on the lower portion of the cup.

 

[wfdbackdraft]

I wasn't prepared for this! It seems like the bottom of the injector cup decided to stick with the head. Still looking for answers on how to get it out.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[RT]

You're going to have to dig it out with a pick. Might have to fashion the tool such that the sharp end of the pick angles in a way that you can go into the injector nozzle hole and try to separate the remaining cup from the base. Might have to hit it with the torch a few times to loosen up the Loctite before you pick at it. What a pain.