[sle2115]

Just wondering about something. I have a bad CDR, just ordered one from Ford. (Also should note that we now have a great parts man at our local Ford dealership that will actually take the time to look up things for you) I was wondering, would running both a CDR and road draft tube work? My thought was that if the crankcase pressure got a little high, then the RDT could bleed off any excess pressure and that by having the CDR, the RDT would not emit quite the amount of "smoke".

Probably a crazy idea, anyone else tried it? If not, I am game for being a guinea pig! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/phoney.gif

 

[argve]

Once you tear apart a CDR valve you will see that it's spring is forcing the valve open at all times. The only time it shuts the flow from the crankcase to the intake is when the intake vacuum is strong enough to overcome the spring, but then once the pressure in the crankcase is high enough it will open the valve again.

So if you had both the CDR and RDT you could possibly be pulling in air from the RDT which would contain tons of whatever was down there (dust/dirt).

 

[sle2115]

Ok, gotcha!

 

[agnem]

Yup. When running an RDT it's esentiall that there are no other holes vented to atmosphere in the motor.

 

[soulpatchfr]

i found THIS THREAD in my faves... should answer almost any & every question /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif
most of the links by various members have been sucked into a black hole, but there's still great info here.

oh, and Scott, "you have mail"

 

[ziggster40]

[ QUOTE ]
by having the CDR, the RDT would not emit quite the amount of "smoke".


[/ QUOTE ]

I'll say it one more time. I believe the CDR is there for pressure regulation and to prevent runaway manifold vacuum from pulling at the crank area.

The CDR has no measureable influence on the amount of smoke in the blow-by.

So, if you put on a RDT, and it smokes a lot(lots of blow-by) it won't make one bit of a difference if there is also a CDR in line with the RDT, it will still have exactly the same amount of smoke(blow-by) coming out.

Zigg /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[sle2115]

I didn't say it affected the amount of smoke or blowby for that matter. That would be like saying a new PCV valve will stop your engine from burning oil. My thought was that by intaking some through the CDR into the intake and some exiting a RDT, the RDT would appear less like a 4 alarm fire. It was then pointed out the CDR functions differently than I was thinking, so this is not a good idea, not because it wouldn't reduce smoke/blowby but for other reasons.

My thought was simply that the RDT emmissions could be reduced by using both. It would be no different than using two RDT's in that in theory, both would emit some crankcase pressure but neither would be as extreme as just one RDT, in any case, the amount of smoke/blowby would not be altered, so Zigg, I heard what you said before.

 

[ziggster40]

Ah, gotcha. My bad, I was reading it wrong, and yes now I understand what you were getting at.

I just get a bit frustrated by the folks who have been told by their dealer/mechanic etc that the reason the truck is going through oil or smoking excessively etc is due to the CDR being "worn out". I think it's just an excuse to sell 'em a new one, and it's just wrong.

I haven't given up on the idea of a condenser of some kind. I don't see why it wouldn't work. I did make up one before, and it worked, but the way I had it set up, it put the crank into a positive pressure situation, and I ended up with major oil leaks as a result. My wife's Mercedes has what appears to be an oil cooler beside the rad, looks just like a tiny rad, with 1/2" in/out lines, but I thought maybe get one of those, and plumb the vapour through it then into some kind of jug, and see how well it'd condense...

Of course, on my new engine there won't be an blow-by, and the RDT will be just a slobber tube, and with no smoke...

Zigg /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[sle2115]

I really have no idea what mine would be like. I only have 138,000 on my truck, little to no oil use and I believe what is used is leaking from the valve covers rather than being burned. When I go up a steep hill with a load, the smell changes and concerns me. I picked up a new CDR today, I guess at this point I am sticking with it. Eventually (when I purchase new exhaust) I will be trying the exhaust evacuation system that I have laying on the shelf. If it works, great, if not, back to the drawing board.

 

[sle2115]

[ QUOTE ]
I did make up one before, and it worked, but the way I had it set up, it put the crank into a positive pressure situation, and I ended up with major oil leaks as a result.
Zigg /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you think using bigger hoses, or multiple smaller ones would help? Seems to me that if it worked, it just needed the capability to flow more air/smoke/blowby.

 

[ziggster40]

No, the problem I had was that the condenser I had sat in front of the rad(made up of a long section of 3/4 tubing snaking back and forth, and then the end of it had a "T" on it. The bottom part hung in the collection container, but the top part just came up in front of the intake, so the idea was the now cleaner crank fumes would get sucked back into the intake.

The condenser did condense well, but I figure the end needed to be plumbed back into the intake where there was some vacuum for the crank area to see negative pressure.

I'll get back to it here one of these days...

Zigg /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[soulpatchfr]

zigg,
i had your original, bitchin' cdr thread saved, but /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif
too bad you don't have copy of that.

 

[agnem]

The problem that may arise from having more than one oriface venting fumes, is you could run into a situation, particularly if the original CDR is involved, where by the intake manifold presure is low enough, to cause ALL the blow-by to go that route, and in addition create a low presure center in the block where by atmoshpere may be drawn in through the RDT hose, esentially reversing the flow in the hose so that unfiltered air is now fed into the cylinders via the crankcase and CDR. NOT GOOD! To a lesser extent a similar problem could develop if two RDT hoses are used, and due to air flow issues in and around the truck and hoses, air could be routed into one RDT hose and out the other. Not as severe as the previous senario, but the idea of dirt coming into the engine and sticking to every moving part is not appealing either.

 

[sle2115]

Yes, the CDR is not an option, but I just wondered how Zigg's setup could be made to work without crankcase pressure. I have been looking at the sprayer filters etc. but have purchased a new CDR. I figure if I can get 138,000 out of it, then I won't have to worry about it, cause while I have no doubt the motor might make it, the body probably wouldn't! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[aceohearts]

I've noticed that my RDT puts out a decent amount of smoke at an idle and I've wondered about some kind of condenser too. The thought I had was something like the Bendix air driers on big trucks. What if you routed the RDT into the bottom half of a jar full of BB's with a hose from the top vented to the atmosphere and a drain of some kind on the bottom. Seems like a lot of the oil mist in the crankcase gases would condense on the BB's and the cleaner air would flow out the top. Then once you got a little oil in the bottom of the jar, you could drain it out. I've thought about building something like this, but wanted to run it by the experts here and see what they thought of the idea...

 

[agnem]

Most of what you see is smoke. I don't know how you would get that to go away.

 

[aceohearts]

Maybe I should have said cleaner air out the top. I wouldn't expect to eliminate all of it just clean it up a little. Anybody know what kind of metal they use in the range hoods? That seems to do a pretty decent job of catching smoke...

 

[6Point9Diesel]

I've been actively reading and doing some research through the site for the last 6 months or so. I've been trying to come up with something to catch the oil before it runs back through the CDR valve. I think it's similar to Ziggy's idea, but instead of running a condenser, I've been thinking about trying to make some kind of separator to separate the heavier particles. I really didn't want to comment on it until I had some hard evidence either way, but it seems like alot of you already have somewhat the same idea as I have. Soooo, I drew a little diagram to show you what I've got planned.

DIAGRAM

I'm planning on mounting the accumulator to the bottom of the CDR valve. My CDR valve is currently mounted and vented Wastegated Banks style. Then I'm planning to run the CCV through the IP Oil fill Adapter.

I may still run the RDT, but I'm going to try this first.

Thought you guys might be interested.

Paul

 

[6Point9Diesel]

Oh Yeah...

I'm planning on making it so that I can easily drain it during an oil change.

Paul

 

[chumstone]

Regarding the amount of pollutants (smoke) exiting the crankcase, have any of you with newer or freshly rebuilt engine noticed just a small anount of smoke?

According to the IH dealer and others I have talked to, the crankcase pressure and amount of smoke is related to the condition of the engine. According to them, my engine is shot, lots of smoke.

I had a RDT, I reinstalled the CDR, now I have a smokey exhaust pipe, it just seems like the engine does not eat all these fumes.

The point I'm trying to make is that smoke can't be cleaned without some way to burn it, filter it or,... way more complicated task than what we are talking about here. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif