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Discussion Starter #1
Is it just me or is having your vehicle shut off at every stop about the dumbest thing they will ever be able to come up with to save fuel? It's on just about every new gas vehicle on the market now.
 

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Haven't seen that one yet.
 

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I was in South Cal back in the 70's, you could see the L.A. smog and your eyes would burn, if you rode a motorcycle in the summer. Just too many cars and not enough air, every little bit helps. Big city drivers spend a lot of time just sitting at stop lights, If all the cars stop running for one min at every light it has a huge effect at the end of the day. I drive old stuff so I don't have to worry about the stop/start issue. All electric or hybrid is how it will work once they get a better battery.

Bugman
You don't even know the motor has stoped or started, we had a rental and it took me a while to notice it.
DENNY
 

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I did some reading on it after I posted. What will they think of next?

Knowing the automotive manufactures they are installing it to boost their mpg ratings rather than decreasing the smog footprint.

I've ridden in a few electric hybrids and if it wasn't for the gauges you would never know that it was running.
 
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I have the start stop technology on my F150. There is no delay at all. It starts instantly when you take the foot off the brake. By the time you get the foot to the gas pedal, it's ready to go.
 

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Is it just me or is having your vehicle shut off at every stop about the dumbest thing they will ever be able to come up with to save fuel? It's on just about every new gas vehicle on the market now.
Why is it dumb? At idle fuel is being burned with no movement. It's wasted fuel. Why not save it?
 

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It would seem to me that if you're in start and stop traffic, this involves a lot of starting which involves a lot of battery usage. Does all the stuff like a/c, radios, fans, lights, etc stay on? Maybe I'm just an old guy who remembers how easy it was to kill a battery if you left anything running once the motor was off.
 

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The cars that have the feature are constantly monitoring multiple parameters. It definitely knows the battery reserve - also monitors engine temperature, ambient temperature, cabin temperature, climate control settings, etc. My Audi won't do the start/stop thing unless the engine is warmed up and stopping the engine won't cause the cabin temperature to dramatically change during the duration it is engaged. Having said that, I live out in the country and having the engine stop every time you come to stop sign or flashing red light where you are only going to be stopped long enough to look left and right is painful.
 

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The cars that have the feature are constantly monitoring multiple parameters. It definitely knows the battery reserve - also monitors engine temperature, ambient temperature, cabin temperature, climate control settings, etc. My Audi won't do the start/stop thing unless the engine is warmed up and stopping the engine won't cause the cabin temperature to dramatically change during the duration it is engaged. Having said that, I live out in the country and having the engine stop every time you come to stop sign or flashing red light where you are only going to be stopped long enough to look left and right is painful.
That feature would result in my getting tickets for rolling stops.
 
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Discussion Starter #10
I just think shutting a car off in stop and go traffic continually for 10 years is not a good solution. If RT is right and it tracks every possible parameter and disables itself such as increased current draw when the starter or wires increase in resistance as they age then maybe the freeways won't be full of disabled vehicles in 5-10 years but then it will likely throw the MIL and instead, the shops will be full and people will be paying through the nose to keep it working. If they are still doing e-tests by then, you can bet it will be required to work to pass.

It seems the more of this stuff they pile into vehicles, the more burden they put on financially strapped people that have to buy the older vehicles to begin with due to finances. Everyone that would be comfortable owning a fully loaded platinum 6.7 when it's 5 years old and has 300,000 and no warranty, raise your hand. Now everybody that would be comfortable owning an out of warranty 7.3L with 300000 on it raise your hand.... I rest my case.

There has to be better ways to save fuel.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I have the start stop technology on my F150. There is no delay at all. It starts instantly when you take the foot off the brake. By the time you get the foot to the gas pedal, it's ready to go.
I have no issue with it when it works perfect, I've had it in a couple of rental vehicles, my sister just bought a Grand Cherokee with it.
 

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There has to be better ways to save fuel.
You mean like dumping it down the exhaust to burn off soot in the DEF? I'm not sure the EPA would allow intelligent minds to come up with better ways... Personally, I'm keeping two vehicles that are so old that a electromagnetic pulse attack wouldn't do anything more than cause some static on the radio.
 
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Discussion Starter #13
RT, don't even get me started, I did my ranting on that one back in '08 when it came out. I looked at the technology then quickly bought the leftover '07 that I'm driving today. It broke my cycle of flipping trucks every 2-3 years.

I just had to replace the cat on my truck, the guts were rattling around inside the original one. Ford here in Canada wanted over 2K for an OEM, even the online US Ford dealers wanted about 1200 plus shipping. An aftermarket POS was going to be about 700 from Rock Auto by the time it got here. I know there are some precious metals inside but over 2K when a muffler is a few hundred bucks...really?

The cycle seems to be the EPA mandates it, "we all have to do our part to clean up the world". It's now a part you can't drive without, up goes the price from the OE and the end user takes it in the $%^. If the whole world was so concerned about the environment, the OEM would say "let's do our part and make the emission stuff as affordable as possible so people can keep it in top shape, we will gouge them on some other items".

At the end of the day, just follow the money to figure out why the world works like it does.
 

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Stop-start is rough on starters, and uncomfortable if you're trying to run the A/C. But it doesn't hurt the battery unless you hit every red light all the way to work. Otherwise, the alternator easily recharges it between stops.

The cost of replacement cats isn't the materials - it's the certifications to prove to the gubmint that it actually works the way the original did.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
The cost of replacement cats isn't the materials - it's the certifications to prove to the gubmint that it actually works the way the original did.
So one would think that the OEM one should be the cheapest, their certification costs would have been completely amortized when factored into the truck cost being produced at the time when they designed it. They just have to crank out more to supply the replacement market now. So once again, the Green movement spells a major opportunity for "green" for the manufacturer.
 

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Actually, the part probably is the cheapest, but Ford uses VERY expensive packaging. That has to be it because when you take an International part and put it in a Ford box, it mysteriously doubles in price.
 

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Just got this yesterday. You can turn it off if you are in the type of traffic that you don't think it works. When you let your foot off of the brake, it starts. If you put your foot back on the brake, it keeps running and you get an indicator light that shows it as disabled for that start. Everything keeps running, including AC and it was blowing cold air. In my quick test in stop and go traffic, it worked perfect. If you are going to be stopped for a long time (grid-lock) and you need AC or are worried about the battery, let off the brake and reapply. Nothing to fear yet.
 

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So one would think that the OEM one should be the cheapest, their certification costs would have been completely amortized...
Good theory, but I don't think it works that way. The OE (assembly-line) parts are certainly certified. But I don't think Ford allows their suppliers (OEMs) to use the designs & certifications that Ford paid for to churn out replacement parts free - I assume the mfr. still has to either license the design from Ford and share those profits, or come up with a new design (aftermarket) that's a direct-fit, and have that certified.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Coincidentally after starting this thread, here is a post I just read today from another source regarding the start stop system:


"A 2014 Malibu was brought in today with a complaint that the alternator needed to be programmed. The S.W. told me that the customer had the alternator replaced by an aftermarket shop for a low charge rate. The new alternator did not fix the problem and they told him to take it to the dealer as G.M. does not give aftermarket shops the ability to program the new alternator. I wonder where he got that idea....must be the secret codes I keep hearing that dealer techs only have access to :0

I asked the S.W. to contact the customer and find out what his actual complaint was. It seems that if he doesn't use the vehicle for a week or so, it cranks slowly and the other shop told him the charge rate was low due to a bad alternator. This is a dual battery start/stop system. it seems many people are confused as to how it operates....let's take a look at it.

All pictures are with the engine idling. First, let's check the voltage at the battery. Ground lead is connected to the negative battery cable.

[2014 Chevrolet Malibu LS, BATT/Charging/Starting Photo] Well, I see his problem. This is with no loads on the system. We need to look a little farther before condemning any components. Let's check charging voltage from the alternator output side...

[2014 Chevrolet Malibu LS, BATT/Charging/Starting Photo] So the alternator is charging 13.86 volts but the battery is only getting 12.39 volts. Where did the voltage go? First, check voltage drop between the positive terminal and the Dual Battery Control Module. (DBCM)

[2014 Chevrolet Malibu LS, BATT/Charging/Starting Photo] Looks OK there. Now test between the positive battery terminal and the DBCM input terminal.

[2014 Chevrolet Malibu LS, BATT/Charging/Starting Photo] There it is. Not an uncommon problem. There is almost a 1.5 volt drop across the DBCM contacts. Let's replace the DBCM and check battery charging voltage again...

[2014 Chevrolet Malibu LS, BATT/Charging/Starting Photo] That's more like it. Our battery should stay charged now. Don't forget to perform a battery sensor relearn before releasing the vehicle. Also, start/stop may not function until the vehicle sits for at least 3 hours unmolested."
 
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