[reb101]

My 19 year old daughter tried to start the truck when I was at work today.

She said "it started, then died about 2 seconds later". She said "it sounded like a chain rattling for a second after it died". "It would not start after that"

The truck is a 2002, F250, 7.3 diesel, with 120,000 miles, with no modifications. I drove the truck the night before, and everything was normal. The oil and coolant both look fine right now. The batteries are well charged and the terminals are clean.

The power up sequence looks normal on the dash when the key is turned on, but now nothing happens when the key is turned to the start position.

Any ideas where to start troubleshooting this? Maybe the starter?

Thanks,
Bob
[email protected]
Cell: 724 561-8727

 

[tinman13kup]

The starter is the first item to tackle, since you need to solve the no-crank before attempting a no-start.

 

[F350_6]

Nothing happens? Not even a click? Have you tried starting in neutral?

 

[reb101]

I don't think it's the switch in the auto transmission linkage....

Shifted the automatic transmission lever to neutral but it didn't help. Shifted back to park, and nothing when I turn the key to the start position.

 

[reb101]

No click when turned to start position

Everything appears normal when the key is inserted and turned to the run position. The dash lights come on as normal, but when turned to the start position, there's not even a click.

I wiggled the shift lever back and forth a dozen times, even with the key held in the START position, with no effect.

What would the "rattling chain sound" be that my daughter said she heard? I was wondering if maybe it was a stuck starter solenoid that was chattering on the the flywheel... but I'm not familiar with the 7.3's starter.

Bob
[email protected]
Cell: 724 561-8727

 

[saltypop]

i have replaced 5 starters on my 03 250 7.3 straight shift.

if she heard the rattle then you possibly have the starter just hanging on, but seems like you would have gotten something from just turning the key.

i would crawl under and check.

common problem for the bolts to come loose and back themselves out.

most of us tighten them every oil change while we are under there.

hope that helps

 

[reb101]

...but why would it have died when first started...?

I'm hoping that is was just a stall right after starting, then the starter gave out. The loose bolt issue would explain the "rattling chain" sound she heard. I have never checked or tightened my starter bolts.

Can't wait till tomorrow to climb under there during daylight and check the starter bolts. I tried earlier this evening, but was creeped out being under the truck while it's parked on a hill without the wheels blocked. I'll feel better when I've blocked all four wheels first....

I would expect to hear the starter solenoid clicking on the starter when I turn the key... even if the starter bolts were loose.

I'm worried it's something more serious. What could be some other options???

Bob
[email protected]
724 561-8727

 

[F350_6]

I'm worried it's something more serious. What could be some other options???

Bob
[email protected]
724 561-8727

If you're not getting any sound when you turn the key then your problem is likely electrical, not mechanical. Turn the key to start and hold it there for 15 or 20 seconds. Then jump out and grab the battery cables. Are any of them hot?

Have you checked all your fuses?

 

[reb101]

Fuses are good and have ~12 volts on the signal line to the starter

Checked the fuse panel and found 30Amp fuse #113 (Starter motor) is good. [Did find 20 Amp Fuse #115 (Trailer Charging) was blown but unrelated]

Battery voltages are ~12.3 volts.

Traced the signal wire from the solenoid on the starter to the wire harness, unplugged it at a connection point near the harness, and put my volt meter probe in there. My daughter turned the key from "ON" to "START" and the voltage came up from zero to ~11.5 volts. So it looks like the ignition switch, and neutral cut-off switch are operating fine.

I could not find the solenoid relay which I’ve read is on the fender somewhere. I assume it's working though because I got the ~11.5 volts on the line that runs to the solenoid on the starter when attempting to crank the engine. (BTW, the schematic in the Haynes Manual calls out the wrong color wire. My signal wire to the starter solenoid is yellow with a green stripe)

I wasn't doing a good job of getting a probe on the signal line at the starter, and ground, and hold the flashlight, and read the meter.... I'll check this again tonight. (I was nervous I might accidently start the motor while underneath it by shorting the 12 volt power cable to the signal line with the voltage probe)

The starter bolts are tight.

I'm starting to suspect that the solenoid on the starter is bad. Is there anything else I can do before removing the starter? I will try to remove it tonight and test it somehow. Any tips/tricks for removing the starter?

This is probably a coincidence, but I noticed that I overfilled the oil on my last oil change by ~ 2 quarts. However the truck is parked on a hill with the front/left tire as the highest point.

(I put the voltage probe on the battery when the key is in the "ON" position, and the battery voltage was also only 11.53 volts. That seems lower than I expected)

 

[RT]

Your starter relay is under the dash - no fender mounted solenoid on an 02. Turn the headlights on - when you engage the starter, if they don't dim - the starter isn't engaging. Whether its the starter, the relay, or wiring in between is something else, but if the starter was engaging against a load (say a locked engine) you'd be getting dimmed headlights.

The 11.53 volts with the key on is normal - you've got 8 direct shorts (glow plugs) activated at that time.

 

[reb101]

Should I hear a click on the solenoid relay under the dash?

Thanks, I'll look for it under the dash tonight. That would explain why I couldn't find where the starter control wire exited the harness under the hood.

When I turn the key to START, there is no click sound anywhere. I would expect to hear on from:

1) the solenoid relay under the dash, and
2) from the solenoid on the starter itself.

I couldn't find any good posts on removing the starter. I guess it should be pretty simple as long as I disconnect the battery first.

 

[reb101]

How do you get access to the top starter bolt?

I've tried to get the top bolt off, but decided to stop and get a longer extension and try again tomorrow. Any tips? I've searched the web and best I could find online is to use 18" of extension with a 13mm wobble socket for the upper bolt.

There are only two I hope. I think I read online that the 2002 7.3 starter has 3 bolts. If there are three, how in world do people get to them?

I am afraid I'm going to strip the bolt if I don't have a secure bite on it with the (6 point) socket when I try it again.

 

[reb101]

2002 F250 7.3 Starter Has Only Two Bolts

Managed to get the starter off. Used 22" combined extensions on my ratchet, and my 14 year old daughter as my assistant. Broke off the stud for the control line to the starter solenoid when removing the nut from the terminal.

Reassembly should be a breeze. I just need to decide on which starter to buy....???? Are the high torque starters really difficult to install? I see tha they are much larger. Which one is the best choice?

 

[RT]

Ford Extreme Diesel Starter - 2-2197-ND Starter - Nippondenso OSGR 4.0 kW, 12 Volt, CW, 13-Tooth Pinion

 

[lance1955]

Everything appears normal when the key is inserted and turned to the run position. The dash lights come on as normal, but when turned to the start position, there's not even a click.

I wiggled the shift lever back and forth a dozen times, even with the key held in the START position, with no effect.

What would the "rattling chain sound" be that my daughter said she heard? I was wondering if maybe it was a stuck starter solenoid that was chattering on the the flywheel... but I'm not familiar with the 7.3's starter.

Bob
[email protected]
Cell: 724 561-8727

With the Key on the ON position on the dash is the WTS (glow plug light) coming on?

 

[reb101]

Mission Accomplished - Thanks Everyone

I ended up buying a starter at a local Advance Auto for $189 (lifetime warranty). I wish I had the time to order the high torque one RT recommended for $149, but we had to get the truck running yesterday. The installation of the new starter was much easier than the removal. My son and I completed the job in about 30 minutes, including cleaning all of the electrical contacts from the starter to both batteries.

I'm surprised how fast the engine cranks now. Before the starter died completely, the engine cranked very slowly, and I assumed there was a problem with the batteries. I had them load tested at Sears and they were fine.

I'm relieved the problem was only the starter! The way my daughter had described it, I was afraid the problem was going to be something much worse.

 

[reb101]

3 bolt verses 2 bolt starter

With the Key on the ON position on the dash is the WTS (glow plug light) coming on?

In response to question from Lance 1955: Yes the WTS/preheater light did come on as normal, there was simply no cranking when the key was turned to the start position. I'm convinced that the "rattling chain sound" my daughter reported was the fly wheel chattering on the starter gear when the starter failed.

One more note. It looks like I could have used either a two or a three bolt starter. There is a third hole in the transmission bell housing where the starter mounts. Since I wasn't real confident in what I was doing, I just stuck with the two bolt type since that what was on there from the factory. The three bolt starter was only $149 at Advance Auto Parts. The two bolt version was $189. In hindsight, I probably should have gone with the three bolt version because it would have been cheaper and probably more secure.

The new starter cranks the engine far faster/better then I can ever remember.