[ArcticDriver]

Most of us are now aware that as of 12/2016 the API has now replaced the CJ-4 diesel engine oil requirements with CK-4 and there is much discussion about how this new oil is not approved for new Ford 6.7 Diesels. (There is a thread on the the 6.7 forum). One primary reason is the new rating limits the Phosphorus content from 1,000-ppm to no greater than 800-ppm to cut down on Greenhouse Gas.

According to Ford the lower Phosphorus content creates "wear concerns":
"In a presentation to the API Lubricants Group in Orlando, Fla., U.S.A., a Ford spokesman indicated Ford will not be recommending API CK-4 and FA-4 due to wear concerns. However, the previous category that preceded CK-4, API CJ-4, provides adequate wear protection for its diesel engines, Ford believes."

Back when my 2000 7.3 was made the diesel API was CH-4 which had higher levels of Ash, Sulphur & Phosphorous (which were all beneficial at lubricating) so every revision of the API moves further from the chemistry of what my engine was designed with. (Not to mention the introduction of ULSD which also removed lubrication advantages).

One positive note is the new CK-4 is advertised to have improved "shear stability" which is beneficial for our HEUI system.

I have read two Heavy-Duty Diesel oils are remaining CJ-4 with the higher Phosphorous content:
specific Amsoil and Mystik (Citgo) products.

I am interested in your opinions and solutions to the new CK-4 mandate.

 

[bigb]

There is a big discussion of this on another forum, not sure if I am allowed to post a link. I believe someone quoted input from Bob The Oil Guy as well. For me I just bought a 2 year supply of CJ-4 to carry me through till this is ironed out.

 

[bigb]

I have read two Heavy-Duty Diesel oils are remaining CJ-4 with the higher Phosphorous content:
specific Amsoil and Mystik (Citgo) products.

Wait, if CK-4 is EPA mandated how can they do that?

 

[ArcticDriver]

Wait, if CK-4 is EPA mandated how can they do that?

BigB,

That is an excellent point and I think I incorrectly used the term, "mandate" when I should have stated the EPA strongly influenced the development of the new CK-4 rated oils.

I do not know if it is actually required by law for an oil company to switch to the new CK-4 formulation.

Hopefully someone can shed more light on this topic.

I wish I had the foresight that you did and bought a barrel of Rotella T-6 in early 2016. I have read that the exact date that Shell switched to the new CK-4 formula is unknown. There are Oil Analysis reports that have shown it was found in gallon jugs still labeled as CJ-4 months prior to the 12/2016 date.

EDIT:
Upon further reading, the mandate appears to be for vehicle manufacturers to meet new fuel economy standards rather than the oil companies. Its simply in the oil companies' interests to offer products which will assist vehicle manufacturers in meeting their mandate.

"Federal regulations are dictating that medium- and heavy-duty diesel vehicles must reduce fuel consumption and greenhouse gas emissions 15 percent by model year 2018, driving major changes in the diesel world. The API CJ-4 specification that has represented the standard for diesel oil performance for the past decade will soon give way to new specifications that will evolve with diesel technology to help ensure manufacturers meet federal mandates."

https://www.amsoil.com/newsstand/diesel/articles/changes-in-the-diesel-market/

And another article also suggests that the move to produce CK-4 rated oils is voluntary:

"Engine manufacturers are expected to recommend API CK-4 oils for on-highway and non-road diesel engines in use today in heavy duty equipment."

http://www.dieseloilmatters.com/oil-guide/diesel-pickup

 

[bigb]

I think you can still find it on the shelf. A few weeks ago I got it at my local AutoZone and more at Tractor Supply. They are still selling off the old stock.

Oh I just saw where you said it was incorrectly labeled. I wonder what I really have them?

 

[ArcticDriver]

I think you can still find it on the shelf. A few weeks ago I got it at my local AutoZone and more at Tractor Supply. They are still selling off the old stock.

Oh I just saw where you said it was incorrectly labeled. I wonder what I really have them?

It is my understanding that the only way to know is to have an oil analysis performed since the manufacturers are not offering the date they introduced the new formulations.

 

[bigb]

Well I went and looked at all my oil and some of it was Rotella T with a date of June 2016 and a yellow label and some was Rotella T-4 with a date of Sept 2016 and a white label. The API specs on both are identical, but when I looked up the newer T-4 on Rotella's site it does indeed show the CK-4 designation. So I just got back from returning all the T-4 and I now only have 5 gallons left of the older stuff from June. I am fairly confident that should not be the newer stuff but like you said who knows without an oil analysis, heck they been working on the formula since 2014.

 

[bigb]

I am not too worried as a letter from Ford only rejects the FA-4 oil and says they need to see more on the CK-4, I believe a reasonable solution will be reached

Ford rejects CK 4 oil - Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums

https://jobbersworldblog.com/2016/1...4-at-this-time-and-needs-to-see-more-on-ck-4/

 

[NYB]

I just wanted to pop in and pipe up to say that is a great question, ArticDriver, especially since Ford's stated reasoning for their rare and notable rejection of the newest API standard was due to lubrication failure in the top end (increased valve train wear) in testing. Ford's prohibition of the new standard applies to ALL Ford diesel engines, not just the 6.7.

When I think about injector internals popping up and down at up to 2,700 PSI, an exercise not required of common rail injectors, it seems like top end lubrication failures would have some import to the longevity of the 7.3L. Except that our oil change interval is less than half that of a 6.7, which is sort of a saving grace. We need fresher oil due to the rapid depletion of anti foaming agents, as our injectors can't intensify 2,700 psi of oil pressure into 20,000 psi fuel pressure, if the oil is aerated from churning.

There is a certain irony of having to add oil to our oil.

 

[ArcticDriver]

I just wanted to pop in and pipe up to say that is a great question, ArticDriver, especially since Ford's stated reasoning for their rare and notable rejection of the newest API standard was due to lubrication failure in the top end (increased valve train wear) in testing. Ford's prohibition of the new standard applies to ALL Ford diesel engines, not just the 6.7.

When I think about injector internals popping up and down at up to 2,700 PSI, an exercise not required of common rail injectors, it seems like top end lubrication failures would have some import to the longevity of the 7.3L. Except that our oil change interval is less than half that of a 6.7, which is sort of a saving grace. We need fresher oil due to the rapid depletion of anti foaming agents, as our injectors can't intensify 2,700 psi of oil pressure into 20,000 psi fuel pressure, if the oil is aerated from churning.

There is a certain irony of having to add oil to our oil.

The new CK-4 Rotella is advertised to have superior anti-foaming agents.

My Wal-Mart is selling 1-gallon jugs of Delo 400LE 5W-40 full synthetic labeled with the old CJ-4/SM. What is your opinion of Delo ?

Of interest, Mobil-1 5W-40 full synthetic rated CJ-4/SN. SN means it is the new formula.

 

[NYB]

What do I think of Delo? I'd sooner use any big oil company product from Chevron, Shell, or ExxonMobil than I would use a product only available from the Avon lady through a multi-level marketing scheme like Amway, Amsoil, or the latest in nutritional supplements. I'm not saying Amsoil is bad oil. I'm just saying that want to standardize on an oil I can get at the next service station on any street corner USA, not some sole individual within whose pyramid I'm downline from, and wait for it to arrive in the mail. Sheesh! I really don't like MLM schemes.

In fact, I used Delo 400 15W-40 exclusively for the first 7 years I owned the truck. About 10 years ago, I switched to Rotella T6 to eliminate cold start romps. Worked like a charm, so I stuck with it. Your thread finally motivated me to check stock on hand. Yikes! I only have 16 gallons left. Enough for 3 full oil changes, plus a gallon left over to make up the quart that gets lost between each oil change using the synthetic 5W-40, which never got lost using Delo's dino 15W-40.

For me, that is a 3 or 4 year supply, as I only drive the truck about 3 or 4 thousand miles per year. Still a bit of a worry though, because in three years I plan to drive the truck 15K miles in one year, which would require 3 oil changes. I have a dozen FL-1995 oil filters on hand, purchased on sale for only $7.95 each. As much as I might like to find more old stock CJ-4, storing that much oil is always an issue with limited space. That's what stores are for... to store stuff for us. But when stuff is on sale, my greed for cost savings trumps the remote storage philosophy. Which is why I bought so many gallons of T6 when it was on sale 3 years ago.

Since we are showing our bottles (bigb), here is the bottle shape, color, and label design of T6 that is KNOWN to be CJ-4/SM without a doubt, as it is from 2013, long before the CK-4 was finalized. Note the last 6 digits of the UPC if you are looking for it. I would think that a different formulation of oil would require a new UPC, even if the bottle shape and color remained unchanged. But that is simply conjecture.

 

[ArcticDriver]

NYB,

Great post. I stockpile whenever I find a favorite product on sale so I like your inventory.

I wish I knew what I was doing 3 years from now.

I only put 5,000 on my truck last year and then I found an opportunity to buy a 2002 a couple days ago in excellent condition and the owners are the kind of people that take care of machinery--it does happen to be a crewcab instead of a supercab like my existing F250 but in all other regards they are the same color and everything. Except my 2000 has forged rods...Lol.

2 nearly identical trucks...looks like my stockpiling habit may be getting a little out of hand.

BITOG had compared an OA of both the old Rotella T-6 and Delo-400LE from a couple years ago (CJ-4/SM) and they were quite similar so I will try out the Delo-400LE (low emissions) this oil change until some feedback and OAs are available on the new T-6 CK-4 formulation.

I noticed you had the "cold start romps" with the Delo 15W-40 so hopefully I won't have the same now that they offer a 5W40.

Hope all is good for you.

 

[NYB]

While I was checking stock, I found a half gallon of Delo 400LE in the cabinet. It was 15W-40. I think it was driving down the road type purchase at any street corner USA, probably bought when checking oil on longer trip. I don't have any recollection, but it was my only experience with "LE". I say that to say that probably ALL Delo 400, in all viscosities, is now likely 400LE.

Congrats on adding a twin to your stable. It is the devil you know, made from unobtanium, so I understand the mindset. Do remember though, that the wiring between your 2000 and 2002 is quite different, even while the drivetrain and equipment are the same. This means that whatever service information you have related to wiring on your original truck, will have to be duplicated for your new to you truck. New wiring diagrams, and, new PCED as well. I've seen differences in the pin point tests between the 2000 and the 2002 PCEDs.

I don't see any incentive for Ford to insist that oil be compatible with engines that are 4 generations old, from a partner (Navistar) they no longer collaborate with. So I assume Ford's rejection of the CK-4 standard is primarily aimed at protecting their self branded 6.7L's exposure to liability within the warranty period. I think that means we are on our own here, so your thread and interest in this topic is good for us all to pay attention to.

 

[ArcticDriver]

Here is Mobil One dated January-2017.

Both the M1 5W-40 and the Delo 400LE 5W-40 are considered Heavy Duty Diesel Engine Oil (HDEO) since they are rated 40 instead of 30.

M1 Turbo Diesel Truck Synthetic 5W-40 CK-4 is reported to have 1100-ppm Phosphorus and 1300-ppm Zinc.

https://mobiloil.com/~/media/amer/us/pvl/files/pdfs/mobil-1-oil-product-specs-guide.pdf

https://mobiloil.com/en/motor-oils/mobil-1/mobil-1-turbo-diesel-truck

https://mobiloil.com/~/media/amer/us/pvl/files/pdfs/mobil-1-oil-product-specs-guide.pdf


Which is still equal to the "old" Delo 400 LE 5W-40 in the CJ-4 rating still available at Wal-Mart:

https://cglapps.chevron.com/msdspds/PDSDetailPage.aspx?docDataId=431883&docFormat=PDF

 

[ArcticDriver]

And just for historical context, here is the API Question & Answer back when CJ-4 was the "latest & greatest" (October 2006) and guys were worried about lower sulphur, sulphated ash and phosphorus levels.

A good explanation here:

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/1036/diesel-engine-oil

Question & Answer here:

https:CJ-4 Service Category Description

And here are the Specs:

CJ-4 Performance Specification

 

[buzzleo]

could we not put some sort of additive in this new old to make it like the old oil??????

 

[69mach1377]

There are additives with zinc and phos, IIRC.

 

[ArcticDriver]

could we not put some sort of additive in this new old to make it like the old oil??????

But what I am finding is that several of the new CK-4 Heavy Duty Diesel Engine Oils (HDEO) in the 40-weight (5W-40 and 15W-40) continue to have similar percentages of Phosphorus & Zinc as the previous generation CJ-4.

Delvac-1 ESP.
Mobil-1 Turbo Diesel Truck.
Delo 400LE.

Have not found Spec Sheet on Rotella T6.

When the CJ-4 was introduced in 2006 there was quite a bit of concern it would not meet the needs of the earlier diesels and those concerns did not appear to play out. I am beginning to wonder if the same will happen with the concerns over the new CK-4 (and I am one of those on the concerned list) and I guess its just a matter of waiting until we get some Oil Analysis after running the new formulation.

So I will stay with CJ-4 while all this plays out another 6-12 months.

We are fortunate that Reactor has joined TDS and can offer us a chemist's expertise.

 

[ArcticDriver]

Just put 100 miles on the Delo 400 LE driving up I-70 into the mountains. Outside temps +25* to +45* and elevations from 5,000' to 8,500' and I have experienced "romps" lasting maybe 30 seconds at maybe 5-mile intervals.

The previous owner told me he had been running Rotella T-6.

I just dropped $80 on this Delo at Walmart and it is reputed to be a good quality synthetic and also to have a great additive package (TBN).

EDIT:
I just bought this truck and only have 300 miles on it so I don't have much of a baseline in its performance...so I cannot say it is this oil with 100% certainty.

 

[blue99stroker]

Are you running the 5w-40?
Are you experiencing romps at start up?

Your the only one I know that has used the 5w-40 delo besides myself.

I've never plugged my truck in again since the switch.