Take a look at this Chevron Technical Bulletin that states: Fuel Leaks From Seals of Vehicles Using Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel
Now what? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif
Now what? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif
The new Diesel Fuel is already causing leaking seals!
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Don't worry about it unless you have a leak, then replace o-rings
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[ QUOTE ]
Now what? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
Now is the time to learn the difference between Buna N Nitrile Rubber and other elastomers. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
Nitrile Rubber (NBR) is cheap, ancient, and barely suitable for sinks and faucets. That's why F*rd selected it for your fuel system! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif j/k
You should only use one of two elastomer types when exposure to Diesel Fuel and Engine Oil is likely:
1) FKM - Bisphenol Cured Fluorocarbon (DuPont's Viton(TM))
2) TFEP - Tetrafluorethylene-propylene (Asahi Glass Co's Aflas(TM))
Number one shouldn't be used with coolant; there's a different FKM for that that is a Peroxide-cured Fluorocarbon. It doesn't do as well as the first with oil. Both of these Fluorocarbons offer excellent service with fuel.
Your injector O-rings should already be Viton. I'm not sure about the rest of the fuel system, but it is unlikely that any OEM components are NBR. Problems may arise in aftermarket components such as fuel lines used for the in-tank and pre-pump mods. Some fuel hoses are FKM-lined but sheathed in NBR. But these should already be merrily rotting away if they are in your fuel tank.
Of special concern would be any bottom-dollar aftermarket fuel filter assemblies, or any questionable retrofitting to the fuel system.
Take a deep breath and relax. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Most of the victims will be seen driving pre-'94 diesels. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Now what? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
Now is the time to learn the difference between Buna N Nitrile Rubber and other elastomers. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
Nitrile Rubber (NBR) is cheap, ancient, and barely suitable for sinks and faucets. That's why F*rd selected it for your fuel system! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif j/k
You should only use one of two elastomer types when exposure to Diesel Fuel and Engine Oil is likely:
1) FKM - Bisphenol Cured Fluorocarbon (DuPont's Viton(TM))
2) TFEP - Tetrafluorethylene-propylene (Asahi Glass Co's Aflas(TM))
Number one shouldn't be used with coolant; there's a different FKM for that that is a Peroxide-cured Fluorocarbon. It doesn't do as well as the first with oil. Both of these Fluorocarbons offer excellent service with fuel.
Your injector O-rings should already be Viton. I'm not sure about the rest of the fuel system, but it is unlikely that any OEM components are NBR. Problems may arise in aftermarket components such as fuel lines used for the in-tank and pre-pump mods. Some fuel hoses are FKM-lined but sheathed in NBR. But these should already be merrily rotting away if they are in your fuel tank.
Of special concern would be any bottom-dollar aftermarket fuel filter assemblies, or any questionable retrofitting to the fuel system.
Take a deep breath and relax. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Most of the victims will be seen driving pre-'94 diesels. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
You definitely know your seals! I've been using Viton seals for many years around Jet Fuel.
I stated "Now what?" as I've been through this before with the intro to the Low Sulfur Diesel in the early 90's and also I've watched the EPA Mandated Fuels that had MTBE in it that caused many car fires and also poisoned the ground water all over California.
It just seems that the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing in government!
Again, you definitely know your seals! I don't find that too often any more.
Take care,
Jim
I stated "Now what?" as I've been through this before with the intro to the Low Sulfur Diesel in the early 90's and also I've watched the EPA Mandated Fuels that had MTBE in it that caused many car fires and also poisoned the ground water all over California.
It just seems that the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing in government!
Again, you definitely know your seals! I don't find that too often any more.
Take care,
Jim
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6,286 Posts
Interesting. Today when I went to fill up there was a big sticker stating that the pump I was filling up at dispensed S500 and that it would damage '07 diesel equipped vehicles. I wonder if they are going to have two different grades of diesel. One for the new vehicles and one for older vehicles. If they were only going to dispense S15, why would they put the warning sticker on the pump? Suppose this is just for the transition period?
Haul_n, there are a good dozen threads about the stickers scattered throughtout TDS. Short version: EPA required the stickers just recently in anticipation of the '07s hitting the streets, but the fuel you're buying hasn't changed. Yet.
Current LSD is <500ppm sulfur. The new ULSD is supposed to be <35ppm sulfur. Use of LSD in an '07+ vehicle will poison the catalyst and/or particulate trap.
Current LSD is <500ppm sulfur. The new ULSD is supposed to be <35ppm sulfur. Use of LSD in an '07+ vehicle will poison the catalyst and/or particulate trap.
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336 Posts
[ QUOTE ]
Most of the victims will be seen driving pre-'94 diesels. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
Doh! Really? We have a '87 F-250 6.9L in the family...reason enough to worry?
Most of the victims will be seen driving pre-'94 diesels. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
Doh! Really? We have a '87 F-250 6.9L in the family...reason enough to worry?
I just stumbled on to this thread and what a coincidence! Yesterday I filled my 2000 F250 CC at the local, high volume, truck stop. I like to fill it up good and full for more range. As I was topping off, a fellow nearby pointed out that fuel was leaking from underneath the truck. Sure enough, a pretty good drip, drip, was running off the top of the tank and making a nice puddle on the ground.
I started the truck up and immediately drove it to the Ford dealer across the street intending to have them look at it. I took another look and the leak had stopped. Since things looked pretty busy at the dealer and I had to be somewhere, I left.
Later, I crawled under the truck (the leak was still stopped) and it appears the leak was located on the top of the tank where the fuel lines go into the tank. The filler neck piping was dry.
So, it looks like the seal for the fuel pump/fuel lines/gauge unit is the culprit but I will have to investigate further with a mirror as I couldn't see very well. Do you suppose the new low sulphur fuel is the culprit?
I suppose the tank has to come out to fix this right? Of course it is full of fuel right now but it won't take long to getr' empty.
Mark Seaman
00 F250 CC 2wd 65,000 miles
I started the truck up and immediately drove it to the Ford dealer across the street intending to have them look at it. I took another look and the leak had stopped. Since things looked pretty busy at the dealer and I had to be somewhere, I left.
Later, I crawled under the truck (the leak was still stopped) and it appears the leak was located on the top of the tank where the fuel lines go into the tank. The filler neck piping was dry.
So, it looks like the seal for the fuel pump/fuel lines/gauge unit is the culprit but I will have to investigate further with a mirror as I couldn't see very well. Do you suppose the new low sulphur fuel is the culprit?
I suppose the tank has to come out to fix this right? Of course it is full of fuel right now but it won't take long to getr' empty.
Mark Seaman
00 F250 CC 2wd 65,000 miles
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Oddly enough, nobody wanted to listen to me when I told them not to put acetone in their diesel fuel. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif
I managed to get a couple of people convinced that at the very least the acetone might attack the rubber tubing section of the fuel filler neck.
I think they went ahead and put acetone in anyhow, but mixed it up with a few gallons of diesel in a gas can before pouring it down the hatch. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif
All I can say is, better yeEEEWWWW than me. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
I managed to get a couple of people convinced that at the very least the acetone might attack the rubber tubing section of the fuel filler neck.
I think they went ahead and put acetone in anyhow, but mixed it up with a few gallons of diesel in a gas can before pouring it down the hatch. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif
All I can say is, better yeEEEWWWW than me. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
Mark, the odds of ULSD (which isn't really available in most places) causing an instant failure like that are vanishingly small. The chemical attack on seal materials happens over a fair bit of time, and I'd say there's probably something else at work here, rather than a chemical attack on the pickup/level sender O-ring seal.
That said, do not buy a generic replacement O-ring from Bob's Bait, Tackle, and O-Ring Supply, because it's highly unlikely you'll get the right material.
That said, do not buy a generic replacement O-ring from Bob's Bait, Tackle, and O-Ring Supply, because it's highly unlikely you'll get the right material.
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Mark Seaman,
DId you fill it to the cap? If so, you'll stop leaking fuel once you've used a few gallons.
There are o-rings in the quick-disconnect fittings on the fuel lines. It's not unheard of for the swaged ends of the metal lines to have o-ring-thrashing burrs.
You've also got a large ring gasket (aka a square cut o-ring) on the top end of the tank's threaded opening. This gasket seals against a stainless plate, through which pass the three stainless lines and a wire. The plate is pressed against the gasket by a giant plastic collar nut. These gaskets are known to fail sometimes. If you replace it yourself (which would be an excellent time to cut your vent tube so you can fill to the cap in 3 minutes instead of 8), slather some vaseline on the gasket before you put it all back together to keep it from bunching up.
DId you fill it to the cap? If so, you'll stop leaking fuel once you've used a few gallons.
There are o-rings in the quick-disconnect fittings on the fuel lines. It's not unheard of for the swaged ends of the metal lines to have o-ring-thrashing burrs.
You've also got a large ring gasket (aka a square cut o-ring) on the top end of the tank's threaded opening. This gasket seals against a stainless plate, through which pass the three stainless lines and a wire. The plate is pressed against the gasket by a giant plastic collar nut. These gaskets are known to fail sometimes. If you replace it yourself (which would be an excellent time to cut your vent tube so you can fill to the cap in 3 minutes instead of 8), slather some vaseline on the gasket before you put it all back together to keep it from bunching up.
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