[Bullrack]

Anyone know some specifics on how much to lengthen track bars related to inches of lift raised? Should be some equation to figure this out but my head hurts too much to research tonight. I'm wanting to build my track bar before installing my lift, but I guess I can wait and measure when I install my lift. I do not want an adjustable one either because they are like power seats, after you set them, you never need to change the settings. I'm using 1-1/2" round bar and weld-on heims for mine. Just wanted to build it, sandblast it, and paint it so it would be ready. BTW, I'm using a 3" lift over the F550 springs I already have, so if anyone knows the correct math, please let me know.

Also, for the sway bars, should the end links be lengthened to keep them horizontal with the truck? Not a problem if they are, I just see alot that are not horizontal any longer after lifts, or does it really matter?

 

[Bullrack]

Trigonomtry or geometry anyone, I would really like to have this done to bolt on right after bolting on the lift and go for a ride.

 

[PowerChicken]

In My Opinion and not saying its right 100%, there is a reason the lift company's use a Drop bracket on the track bar. They also use drop pitman arms to lower the effected angle of the drag link. This is all done to correct bump steer. I just had a horrible problem on my F-250 I just bought with a 3.5 inch lift. I corrected the problem with a Drop pitman arm and a Drop track bar bracket.

The Idea behind this is that you want the angle of the pitman arm and the drag line parallel This keeps bump steer at a minimum. I'm not trying to tell you what to do just my opinion on a route to take. I would lower the drag link instead of making it longer.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smokin.gif

 

[Bullrack]

Well, I agree with you too, but lengthening it on mine will keep it parrallel and the main factor is centering axle back to center. I also have the correct drop pitman arm for my lift, which will leave my parts parallel. I guess I'll just do it myself when I lift it.I thought with all the knowledge floating around these parts, someone would have exact details. I have seen many running without a relocation bracket and no bumpsteer? Who knows, maybe some trucks are different?

 

[PowerChicken]

I see now /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif.

 

[craig254]

I would recommend talking to Marty (Overkill) from Truck Toyz. He is super knowledgable and easy to talk with. I recently installed a lift on my Excursion using F550 springs and a 2" mini pack. I used only an adjustable track bar from Marty and it works great. He told me there was no need for a drop bracket or pitman arm. If I went any higher, then they would be needed. I don't seem to have any problems with my setup. When I did adjust the bar for installation, I increased it's length around 2" for my application. Good luck.

 

[craig254]

Bullrack, let me also add about the end links. Instead of making them longer, you can flip the top mounting bracket and install it on the bottom of the frame rail. With a 3" lift, that should be enough. Just unbolt the brackets from inside the frame rails, turn them upside down and bolt them to the bottom of the rails. Very simple. Hope this helps also.

 

[dacriss]

I would re-think this.
Look at it this way; take a piece of paper, compass (drafting compass) and a straight edge. Draw a line with the straight edge across the paper. Now move up from the line and make a dot 1/3rd in from the edge of the paper. Draw a line that is parallel to the first line that runs to 1/3rd from the other edge of the paper. Now place your compass point on the dot. Open the compass so that the pencil tip is at the end of the second line. Draw yourself a half circle 90 deg up and down from the line.
The first line is your ground reference. The second line is the track bar. The half circle is the path of your track bar as it moves up or down with out suspension limits. Take any point along this curved line will show the displacement of the axle as it moves.
You should begin to see that the track bar needs to be parallel to the ground to have the least effect on the axel as it moves up and down.
This is why for every inch of lift you need to drop the track bar mount location one inch. This is the only way to maintain factory geometry. Lift companies however believe that with lift you can have a certain amount of axle movement, it's a trade off.

Now to your question, ever though I think you just need to drop your mounting location and not lengthen your track bar.
Park the truck on a level and flat concrete pad
Measure the length of the track bar
Measure the height from the pad to the axel mounting point
Measure the height from the pad to the frame mounting point
Measure the length from the axel mounting parallel to the pad and even with the frame mounting point.
Use the formula A squared = B squared + C squared
A = the length of your track bar
B = frame mount height – the axel mount height
C = the distance from the axle mounting location to the frame mounting location that is parallel to the ground.
This gives you the basics. Now increase the length of ‘B’ by the amount of lift you are adding.
Now use A = square root of B squared + C squared. This will give you the length of your needed track bar.
DACriss
BTW if you have steering issues it's because you did not drop your mounting location, not because the track bar is wrong.

 

[rlarkin]

dacriss is correct by just a little more than 100%!

If your truck is of the type where "4 WHEEL" means that you have 4 wheels in contact with smooth asphalt at all times, then this is not an issue.
If you expect ANY suspension travel out of the front end, then you need to pay attention to what dacriss said.

 

[dacriss]

I have just re-read your post and have just one further item to add.
You have already added the F550 springs, how much lift did this add?
You are now going to add 3" more of lift, right?
What is you total lift going to be?
Why not just look at the products of who ever is you favorite lift company is and purchase their track bar drop bracket? It will most likely save you problems in the long run.
Just a thought before you go through the labor and cost and have to change it later.
DACriss /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[WHOISBIGMAN1]

[ QUOTE ]
I would re-think this.
Look at it this way; take a piece of paper, compass (drafting compass) and a straight edge. Draw a line with the straight edge across the paper. Now move up from the line and make a dot 1/3rd in from the edge of the paper. Draw a line that is parallel to the first line that runs to 1/3rd from the other edge of the paper. Now place your compass point on the dot. Open the compass so that the pencil tip is at the end of the second line. Draw yourself a half circle 90 deg up and down from the line.
The first line is your ground reference. The second line is the track bar. The half circle is the path of your track bar as it moves up or down with out suspension limits. Take any point along this curved line will show the displacement of the axle as it moves.
You should begin to see that the track bar needs to be parallel to the ground to have the least effect on the axel as it moves up and down.
This is why for every inch of lift you need to drop the track bar mount location one inch. This is the only way to maintain factory geometry. Lift companies however believe that with lift you can have a certain amount of axle movement, it's a trade off.

Now to your question, ever though I think you just need to drop your mounting location and not lengthen your track bar.
Park the truck on a level and flat concrete pad
Measure the length of the track bar
Measure the height from the pad to the axel mounting point
Measure the height from the pad to the frame mounting point
Measure the length from the axel mounting parallel to the pad and even with the frame mounting point.
Use the formula A squared = B squared + C squared
A = the length of your track bar
B = frame mount height – the axel mount height
C = the distance from the axle mounting location to the frame mounting location that is parallel to the ground.
This gives you the basics. Now increase the length of ‘B’ by the amount of lift you are adding.
Now use A = square root of B squared + C squared. This will give you the length of your needed track bar.
DACriss
BTW if you have steering issues it's because you did not drop your mounting location, not because the track bar is wrong.

[/ QUOTE ] /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif

OR... ABOUT 1 INCH. BUT DO YOURSELF A FAVOR AND GET, OR MAKE YOURSELF AN ADJUSTABLE ONE. 1 1/4" HEAVY TUBING AND SOME 3/4" HEIM JOINTS. LESS THAN $100 AND ALL THE ADJUSTABILITY YOU NEED.

 

[dacriss]

"OR... ABOUT 1 INCH. BUT DO YOURSELF A FAVOR AND GET, OR MAKE YOURSELF AN ADJUSTABLE ONE. 1 1/4" HEAVY TUBING AND SOME 3/4" HEIM JOINTS. LESS THAN $100 AND ALL THE ADJUSTABILITY YOU NEED."

Wont help with the geometry; so unless it's just driven on the street, you will have problems.
But it will solve most of the math problem.
DACriss /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Bullrack]

10-4, thanks to all. I think I remember the front springs added a little more than 1-1/2" to begin with, it now sits perfectly level. So I guess all these track bar relocators I've been saying "No" to because they were for 4" and above lifts were right to begin with. Someone slap me because I completely forgot about the 1-1/2" initial lift. Brainfart I guess. I will go with a track bar relocator. I'm not saying the adjustable track bars are wrong, I just hate them with a passion, they look crappy in my opinion. I think they are useless kind of like power seats and I will not have those in my truck either. And no one is allowed in my truck to move the seat anyway, and if they did, they would never do it again because they would have no hands to do so with. I will wait to build my lengthened track bar out of my solid barstock after I install the lift. So, do you have to lengthen it after installing relocator? Also, would a dropped pitman arm for a 4" lift be OK? I have all these questions because I've never done my past lifts myself. Thanks again to all that have replied.

 

[dacriss]

With the 1.5" you already have and the 3" you want to add, that should give you 4.5". Find an Edge suspension dealer and see if he can order you the relocating braket for the Edge 4.5" lift system.
I went with the Edge adjustable track bar because my early '99 had a smaller track bar. The Edge bar was alot beefier. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
DACriss /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Bullrack]

Well, yeah, you would think so, but my axle must have been off from the factory because of all the measuring I can stand, my axle is exactly centered perfectly. I always thought it was off-centered before the F550 springs anyway.

I still don't see what is wrong with adding 1" to 1-1/2" to the length of a track for off-road use. Anyone here ever heard of Red Simpson, Inc.? I mean to tell you that all of those F350's have block kits front and rear, re-arched springs, and only a spliced track bar and not one has had any problem. They use these for highline work and every day in mud and snow. I doubt most trucks on this site see conditions these do. I'm not saying that the math don't work, I completely agree with that part, but lengthening a track bar can't be that critical. Or am I missing something?

 

[rlarkin]

[ QUOTE ]
I still don't see what is wrong with adding 1" to 1-1/2" to the length of a track for off-road use.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is nothing at all wrong with lenghtening the track bar, as long as you do understand the math.

Using the factory mounting location and a lengthened bar to accomodate a truck lifted more than 3 inches will be fine at rest.
But due to the increased angle of the track bar, a upward suspention travel of 3 inches will push the axel out the passenger side a little more than 1 inch. A downward travel will pull it to the drivers side the same distance.

 

[Bullrack]

rlarkin, I'm with you on this too. I don't think it would move any further side to side than stock. The more I think about this, several months after purchasing truck, when the stock V-Code springs sagged bad enough for tire rubbing, so, the F550 or X springs really only corrected sag while adding maybe 1". Now adding 3" worth of lift on top of that should not shove the axle enough to notice. And it sure won't cause any articulation problems off-road any different than normal. My problem is, it all looks as if adding drop pitman arm(which I am) along with track bar relocator and/or maybe a longer track bar would cause more "Out of Geometry" problems. Everyone please remember, I will not be running the "Baja 1000", only normal conditions where I will see some mud in the fields or the pastures, but no rock crawling until I get diff covers protected.LoL

If someone can prove or show me how a relocator bracket is beneficial, I will order one tomorrow. I'm really looking for real life experiences with either way, not just a lift co. ad saying I should buy thier bracket for $180! I will say this, the trucks I referred to earlier could care less if it hairlipped every cow in the state of Texas if the axle moved over an 1" while muddin'!

 

[rlarkin]

The 1" of shift will cause a very nasty "BUMP STEER".

Bassed on what you are saying, you will have a total lift of 4". You will need either a longer track bar, or a relocation bracket, just to get it hooked back up and centered.
If you go with the longer bar, you WILL get side shift and bump steer.

 

[dacriss]

Remember my post from up above with the parallel lines and the curve?
If you draw a perpendicular line from the ground reference point to the curve, you should see that for small movement along the curve from the center point will give you small movement along the ground reference. Now as you move more along the curve you will see that the change in distance along the curve is not proportional along the ground reference.
Now remember that we do not live in a perfect word and the engineers did not design this with a parallel to ground track bar. So we are starting off some what down on the curve to begin with. So you can expect to see more movement in the axel with regards to down ward travel than up ward travel. This movement is going to directly transmit that force to the gear box and you will feel it as bump steer.
But you seem determined to just extend the track bar, so I say go ahead and do so after you have added your lift. Set-it up and give it a try. Let us know what you find out. May be we are just so us to the plush ride and handling, that a little bump steer seem all too harsh. (A hydraulic steering system will handle that).
DACriss
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[rlarkin]

OK. Just for grins, I went out and taped off some measurements, and fired up the cad.

With factory track bar bracket, and your 4" of lift, to keep the axle centered the track bar would need approximately 1 1/4" of added length. Sitting still.

Using this geometry, a 3" high speed bump in the parking lot will kick the axle to the passenger side approx 1 3/4".
Drop the axle in a 3" pot hole, and it will kick to the drivers side about 3".