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Discussion Starter #1
We want to welcome Western Diesel as a new advertiser on Ford-Diesel.Com. Their products currently consist of chips for both the 94-97 Power Strokes and the 99-up Power Strokes and an exhaust brake that uses your existing exhaust back pressure valve to help slow the truck down. They have a new ram-air system in the works for the Super-Duty trucks that should really let that big diesel breathe.

I like to post announcements here when we get a new advertiser so you'll know what vendors are helping support Ford-Diesel.Com. Let them know you appreciate their support and go check out their products. I don't think you will be disappointed.

Jason


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Jason,
Don't you think it's a bit strange that after all the doomsaying in the past, some of it by moderators and administrators of Ford-Diesel.com concerning the use of exhaust brakes, that we should have Western Diesel now with a banner ad on the exhaust brake. It doesn't offend me at all I just wonder what the reasoning is that condemns their use by forum representatives, and then the forum itself enables their sale and use.

Obviously the commercial aspects of life can have a powerful influence, regardles of the altruistic motives.

Frederick
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I've never said anything about exhaust brakes. In fact, I'll be installing one on my truck this weekend. The forum moderators are all entitled to their own opinions of course, but that doesn't necessarily mean those opinions also represent the views Ford-Diesel.Com.

Jason


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Fredrick,
One of the things that was told to us in no mis-understanding way was that just because we were advertising, we would get no special treatment or defense if anyone had negative things to say, including by other moderators.
Jason may like the brake, while one of his moderators may not condone it and may be openly against it.
People will still make up their own minds, the ads just let people know who is helping support the site, so if they want a certain item, they might try one of the sponsors instead of an outside source.
Bob

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99.5SD PSD, CC, Black, 4X4Off Road, Lariat, Superchip Hot, Amsoil from front to back. My 99.5 Superduty Turbo Brake, A-Pillar with Trans Temp, Boost, and EGT Guages. www.riley-enterprises.com
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by fyoung:
I just wonder what the reasoning is that condemns their use by forum representatives, and then the forum itself enables their sale and use.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

For those that don't already know, I'm probably the one that Frederick is fussing about. But he misunderstands me. I have never "condemned the use" of exhaust brakes. I simply point out that Ford has told their dealers that things like chips and exhaust brakes can cause damage to the truck that will not be covered by the manufacturer's warranty. And I have pointed out that in my limited experience, I haven't needed either more go power (chips) or more stopping power (exhaust brake). And I have continually pointed out that Ford says you should never exceed the GVWR or the GCWR of your tow vehicle.

Those folks that want to add a chip or an exhaust brake or overload their tow vehicles like to blame me - when all I'm doing is pointing out what Ford has said.

But I can see some circumstances where an exhaust brake would be beneficial. I might even wind up with one before long, and if I do it'll probably be the one from Western Diesel. {I liked their presentation at the Texoma get-together.}


But there is no free lunch. More horsepower and torque from your engine means a shorter life from that engine. More stopping power using the engine and tranny as a brake can damage the engine or the tranny or both if you don't know exactly what you're doing. Frederick probably knows exactly what he's doing. But most of us don't. Thus Ford's warning that your warranty could be in jeopardy.

Don't shoot the messenger!



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Ford-Diesel.com is a member-supported website, for more info: Click here. ........ Ole retired guy in west Texas with Darling Wife and Sierra Blanca - the white mountain of a '99.5 F250 diesel-powered CrewCab.

[This message has been edited by SmokeyWren (edited 05-20-2000).]
 
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Smokey,
Frederick probably knows exactly what he's doing. But most of us don't.

I wouldn't exactly say that
When all engineering knowledge has been exhausted the next best thing is a Wild-A***-Guess. You just have to have your guess calibrated a bit


I was sailing on Lake Superior one time and had just come out of the entrance to Thunder Bay. I hadn't taken a running fix in about 15 minutes when the fog came rolling in like cotton wadding. I was going up the coast to a place called Silver Islet. I looked at the chart and said to my wife I think we're there. Based on that guess we made it to Silver Islet. We nearly ran aground a couple of times, but we made it. You couldn't see your hand in front of you. Sometimes the educated guess is all you've got left


Frederick

[This message has been edited by fyoung (edited 05-20-2000).]
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SmokeyWren:
But there is no free lunch. More horsepower and torque from your engine means a shorter life from that engine. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can understand those that use a hot chip and tear around the countryside wearing down the engine more than a stock engine. Are you saying that even with mild chip that is used mainly to achieve a bit more power in towing a "legal" load is still going to shorten the life expectancy of your motor? How are these chips achieving this extra power? I thought through timing and fuel supply. What extra wear will be felt if used in this manner?

Thanks, just trying to understand this in case I ever decided I need more when I finally am able to purchase my 5er.



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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gary Lohr:
Are you saying that even with mild chip that is used mainly to achieve a bit more power in towing a "legal" load is still going to shorten the life expectancy of your motor? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Of course.

Do you think Ford is run by a bunch of idiots?


If Ford could get more HP and/or torque out of your engine with a simple program change in the PCM (which is what a chip does) with no offsetting cost to longevity or reliability, don't you think International and/or Ford would have done it long ago? Just to rub the nose of the Cummins and GM crowd into the dirt?


Of course they would. But they didn't. They went to school to, and they learned that TANSTAAFL!
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Smokey,

You may not have seen the changes coming for 2001. Horsepower will be upped to 275 with no major changes to the engine itself. They are doing exactly what you said, adding more fuel.

The Power Stroke has been out now for over 6 years. People have been adding chips and exhaust brakes almost since the debuted in 1994. I have yet to hear from someone that had a major failure of any kind that was caused by either a chip or exhaust brake. I'm sure there are some out there, but it seems to be very uncommon .. probably failure rates about the same as a stock engine if you really looked into it. These aftermarket companies have too much to lose if their products would cause harm to our engines.

Check with Paul Mason on here. His '96 has been running at 400hp for as long as I can remember.

Jason


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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JLester:
You may not have seen the changes coming for 2001. Horsepower will be upped to 275 with no major changes to the engine itself. They are doing exactly what you said, adding more fuel.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

We don't know what changes are involved to get that extra 40 horses, but I'll bet you a dollar to a donut that they will do a lot more than a simple PCM change [equivalent to "adding a chip"]. Maybe "no major changes" to the engine itself, but a lot of minor changes to the engine and turbo and exhaust, etc., etc. Sort of like the evolution of the downpipe on the early Powerstrokes to the one on the 2000s. Not a "major engine change" but a change nevertheless.
 

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I think a few more facts are needed here. This sounds like a bit of just plain opinion.
How many people out there have actually chipped their trucks and have 150,000 or better miles on them? I use this figure since the power strokes have been out since 94 I don't know how many would have over 200,000 miles on their truck. I know if I get that many miles on my truck I will be more than satisfied since that should take me long past retirement with the miles I rack up on a vehicle. I guess I would like to know some specifics in this "life shortening" mode due to a chip enhancement..

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SmokeyWren questions: "Do you think Ford is run by a bunch of idiots?"

That's superfluous to the discussion!


Seriously; how much of the engine rating is related to actual performance, and how much is related to marketing? We all know that the TE444 is capable of much higher ratings than the Powerstroke. But consider this: Dodge announces a Cummins with 205 hp and 400 lb-ft of torque, so Ford counters with the Powerstroke at 215 hp and 425 lb-ft. Dodge responds by "increasing" their ratings to 225 hp and 450 lb-ft, to which Ford announces 235 hp and 500 lb-ft. All these increases are accomplished without major redesign of either engine. If the actual maximums were the starting point then the ONLY way to beat the competition would be a major redesign, or a completely new engine. As it is now, both Ford and Dodge can play the numbers game for several more iterations if they want (except Ford has already decided on a new engine for other reasons), until they finally reach the design's limits.

In the final analysis it's not the engine that's the weak link in either the Ford or the Dodge trucks - the ret of the drive train has to be able to absorb the power the engine is dishing out.



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Smokey,
Not putting you on the spot or anything, but... remember I posted on this subject a few weeks ago about my oil analysis reports showing no wear for last 10,000 miles? Is this wear in other areas than internal engine components? If not, then that theory doesn't hold water, at least not in my truck.
Bob

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Discussion Starter #14
Smokey,

Also, changes to the turbo and exhaust do not make the engine itself more reliable. They only make it breathe better and be able to cope with more boost and less backpressure. The basic shortblock engine itself has went through no changes that I know of since 1994. However, HP and torque have gone up dramatically since then. That tells me that the engine is still not at the limit.

Jason

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Just wondering what brand brake you're using

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JLester:
I've never said anything about exhaust brakes. In fact, I'll be installing one on my truck this weekend. The forum moderators are all entitled to their own opinions of course, but that doesn't necessarily mean those opinions also represent the views Ford-Diesel.Com.

Jason


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Western Diesel's Turbo Brake. I plan on installing it this week and putting up a full install/review article next week.

Jason


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Jason
I need to e-mail a request to you about the NE rally, questions about FoMoCo and people like Western.

I'm putting together a list and will send it to you this week.

Thanking you in advance




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Jason, Glad to hear about the upcoming article, I ordered my Turbo-Brake from DIS a few days ago. Jeff

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I have installed my Western diesel turbo brake and I love it......oop's I have posted this before, several times, a lot.
Sorry

No I'm not!

Chet

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I believe the if you chip it you will wear out the motor theory is a bunch of hooey. I doubt there is a chip out there that will shorten the life of the motor. We have been turning up motors at work in bulldozers for a long time, lots of dt-466's and a few 5.9 cummins. The turned up ones last just as long as the stockers. Although I will say that you can turn a diesel up too far and it will blow up. To much heat is a result. It either blows up or cracks a head. I am very doubtful that there are many, if any chips that will do this. And the folks that would have these chips probably monitor their engines very closely.

Applying the same theory to a gas motor ... If you put a four barrel holley and dual exhaust on a 350 chevy, you will shorten it's life. Nope. The motor will breath easier, make more power, and probably drink more gas. The pimple faced teenager standing on the throttle trying to pass one of us in our chipped psd's will shorten the engine life.


Furthermore, somewhere I read that the psd only uses 30 to 35 percent of the maximum power that the motor is capable of. Those with the standard chip are only upping it to around 40%. Still on the low end of things. Now if someone had theirs putting out around 75% (and I'll get there someday
) I would say that they are headed for a meltdown if not careful. But I don't see how engine life would be shortened.

Basicaly my point is (I think I have one
) ... improper care (not changing the oil, etc.) , hard use, and just plain abuse shorten engine life. Adding a chip for a little extra pep won't hurt a thing. (I think)



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