[erwatt]

My first post -
Broke down on trip - HELP PLEASE
Drove on interstate around 250 miles. Refilled with 1/4 tank. Drove another 40 and started losing power. We are dead in the water. Truck will idle a little rough, but not bad. Blows blue white smoke when I push the accelerator. No power when I put in gear. Sometimes cuts off. Any suggestions. Oh yea, it's a 6.0 that has been bullet proofed. Engine and tranny temp are normal. Oil pressure is good.


Update -
Family came to the rescue and towed me home.
It was suggested to drain the fuel. I drained the fuel and it kinda had a gas smell to it. Not real sure though. I also replaced the fuel filters and added some PM22 and PM23 fuel treatment. Added 10 gal of fresh diesel. Truck started up, ran good, had normal power, but did smoke. I drove to the gas station - 1.5 miles, filled up the tank. Drove off - no power?? Drove real slow to get her home. Reset the computers by disconnecting and reconnecting batteries. No help.
What do I need to look at next? Could a bad fuel injector be causing this issue? How about the turbo charger? Any feedback would be appreciated!!

 

[TKOPerformance]

A single bad injector would not cause this.

Its not throttling up, which would seem to indicate a fuel issue, because Diesels are fuel throttled (no fuel, no increase in RPM).

I would start by checking your fuel pressure. You need to see a minimum of 45psi at all times. If it makes 45psi then fuel pressure isn't your issue. If it doesn't then the issue could be a bad regulator spring, in which case its time for the blue spring kit. It could also be a bad pump. They don't fail often, but it does happen.

As far as a turbo issue, that could cause a fueling issue because the two systems are linked electronically. When you press the accelerator does boost rise? If not something's wrong in the turbo system.

Check those things and report back.

 

[erwatt]

Sorry I haven't gotten back earlier. I've been traveling for work. I appreciate the feedback TKOPerformance. Well I tested the fuel that I removed from the truck and it definitely has gas mixed with the diesel. :-( I will be testing the fuel pressure tomorrow.
To answer your question regarding boost rise - I don't get any kind of noise or feedback from the engine when I accelerate. It acts as if the acceleration petal doesn't even exist.
I don't know what kind of damage has been caused by the mixed fuel. This is my first diesel and my knowledge is limited. But it looks like I will be learning a lot.
Again, thanks for the feedback. I will post an update after further testing. Any advice on manufacture of fuel pumps, pressure regulator, fuel injectors?
Tks!

 

[TKOPerformance]

When I talk about boost rise I mean does the needle on the boost gauge move? When you tip into the throttle boost should start to rise almost immediately. If it doesn't it could indicate a problem with the turbo.

Get that fuel out of it, drain the HFCM and replace the fuel filters. I'd suction out the filter housing on the engine too, and probably also crack the banjo bolts loose to drain the fuel from the rails in the heads. Hopefully no damage was done.

 

[erwatt]

Checked the fuel pressure at the filter on top of engine. It was at 50 PSI. While cold the engine ran fine. It accelerated without issue. I was moving the truck forward and backward in the drive and was pushing hard into pedal. The fuel pressure only dropped 2 PSI while doing this. Things started going south after the engine started to warm up. It took a good 20 minutes for the engine to start moving the temperature gage. The engine started running really rough. When I put it into gear the engine would almost die. When I accelerated the engine it had little power. The fuel pressure was still at 50 PSI with a maximum drop of 2 PSI.
My truck does not have a booster gage so I cannot tell you if the booster rises when I accelerate. I'm assuming the booster will make some sort of noise when it rises. When the engine is hot and I do not get a response from the throttle, I do not hear the booster picking up speed.
How can I determine if the booster needs to be replaced or if it is one of the many sensors could be bad?

 

[erwatt]

I checked the MAP at engine idle, accelerating, and at higher rpm - not loaded - sitting in driveway. MAP was between 14.5 and 16.2 PSI. That was the highest setting I could achieve. I also checked the rubber hoses on the intercooler duct and did not find any leaks.
From what I have read that pressure is very low. What I don't know is if this pressure needs to be checked under load.
Any feedback would be appreciated.
Tks

 

[TKOPerformance]

If you are reading MAP that's boost. Under max load you might see 28psi, but if you're just reving it in neutral, or even accelerating in 1st or 2nd gear you aren't going to hit that number. Turbos build boost pressure by being loaded and there's too much mechanical advantage in the lower gears to load the engine enough to make peak boost.

What you should see if boost rise from 0-10-15psi almost instantly when you tip into the throttle. If its doing that then the turbo is likely working and doesn't have a leak in the system.

Have you checked FICM voltage? Check it KOEO, cranking, running cold and running hot and see if there's a difference. It should be 48V all the time.

 

[erwatt]

First I would like to thank TKOPerformance for his continual support. I'm new to this forum and to the world of diesels. I'm not sure where I would be without the support of this forum.
I tried to further test the MAP feedback by driving around in the neighborhood and observing the feedback. However, today the truck ran very poorly, even when cold. I did note that MAP was reading 14.5 PSI before I started the engine. After starting the pressure only rose to around 15 +/- 1 psi. I did put it into gear, hold the truck in place with the brakes, and accelerated. This did not change the MAP feedback. The engine did not have enough power to pull out of drive, so I backed off trying to do so.
I was also going to check the voltage on the FICM. I thought that voltage was one of the parameters on my diagnostic tool, but it's not. Well it might be, but I'm also new to the diagnostic tool, so it could be operator error. I plan to investigate further if I have enough time tomorrow. If I'm correct it looks like the FICM is located next to one of the batteries. I guess I will have to remove the battery before I can access the pins to measure the voltage.
Again, thanks,

 

[TKOPerformance]

The FICM is on the LH valve cover. You should be able to access the cover very easily. I think you are looking at the PCM, that is sort of behind the LH battery.

 

[searcyfarms]

have you happened to notice and obvious air leaks - could it have blown off the cac boot and you are not building pressure? when mine did that it blew lots of smoke and made more noise than usual. it wasnt completely off, just part of the hose came out from the clamp so it was letting air escape and was obviously down on power even though it still ran ok but rough.

 

[erwatt]

Well I found time to check the voltage on the FICM this weekend. My luck, when I was moving the water reserve tank out of the way - I broke the plastic Y fitting - dang it! That was a $50 mistake. Made a plug for the hose to ensure I didn't get water into the FICM while checking. In all cases the voltage was between 48.1 and 48.8 VDC - ignition switch on, running cold, or running hot.
Truck still runs okay when cold but when hot it runs rough and cannot accelerate the RPM. We still don't have any error codes.
Would checking the HPOP pressure be the next step? Any other suggestions outside of dynamite?

 

[searcyfarms]

sorry you are way above my paygrade here and a knowledgeable answer - wish I could help more - sounds like the ficm is ok regarding voltage - as for the hpop I think there is a way to check that pressure but not sure if you have to have a scan gauge for that or something or special software/laptop

from what I have heard on a bad hpop they are hard starting when warm - sorry I missed your earlier post if you stated but what year truck/miles is this? if its an 03 and more than 150K I would have suspicions on the HPOP - but given this all happened possibly from bad fuel/gas in it.......hmmmm that wouldn't run through the hpop itself

 

[TKOPerformance]

The cold vs. hot thing could indicate an HPO system issue or an electronic issue. So we know the caps in the FICM are good, but that's not a definitive test unfortunately. What can happen with the FICM is that the solder joints inside it crack and they can make contact cold, but not hot when stuff has expanded. There's no way to test this though other than to swap in a known good FICM and see if it runs right, or send it out to Ed at FICMRepair.com - FORD Powerstroke 6.0 FICM Repair, PHP Tuning and Truck Parts.

If the truck starts its making HPO system pressure, at least enough to start. You need a way to read the electronic side of that system. A pressure test is likely not going to be able to tell you anything, because HPO pressure starts at 500psi and can go as high as 3,800psi. But, if you can read what the ICP is reading pressure wise, and what the IPR is being commanded to do in response that could eliminate this issue being HPO system related.

 

[erwatt]

Thanks TKOPerformance! I thought checking the voltage when engine was cold and when it was hot would be adequate. The voltage was good in all cases. However, the engine ran poorly and would not accelerate when it got hot. Live and learn I guess.
I did change the oil to verify if there were any signs of metal dust or flakes in the oil. There were not any signs of metal in the oil. The magnetic oil plug had absolutely no metal containments. I'm hoping this is a sign there aren't any mechanical damage such as piston rings, bearings, or such.
I have a friend coming over tomorrow to put the truck on a computer analyzer. He says he can find my problem. I hope so. I'll let you guys know the out come.
Again, thanks TKOPerformance.

 

[TKOPerformance]

Is very unlikely to have bottom end damage in a 6.0. They are very stout in that regard, actually much stouter than the new 6.7s for example. The only time I've heard of a bottom end issue in a 6.0 was due to an injector failure like a lost tip where the heat in that cylinder ruined a piston and sometimes could also damage a cylinder wall. I've never heard of bearing or ring trouble. The bottom end is a legit 500k mile engine if its maintained.

Let us know if your buddy is able to find anything amiss. I've got a couple more avenues to explore, but I don't want to overload you, so I'm steering you down the most likely path first.

 

[erwatt]

Well it's been over a year since I posted an update on the 6.0. I parked the truck in the back yard due to family issues and money. I did periodically go out there and cranked her up to keep the batteries charged. I had not cranked her up for a couple months so I did so just before Thanksgiving. I let her warm up about 30 minutes. Just for kicks and giggles I put her in gear after she warmed up. It seem to have normal power. ??? If you read all my previous postings, it always lost power when it warmed up. I drove it around the block but I was too scared to push my luck. Yesterday, I took her for a ride. Drove around 15 miles with speeds up to 65 MPH. The truck seems to respond normally. I don't understand. I have not done anything to fix the problem. It just seems to go away on it's own???
Oh yeah, I did have a friend to come over and use his scan tool. He said it had at least 2 bad fuel injectors and a couple other things, I don't recall now.
If someone could shed some light on this, please do so. I'm still a little gun shy to take the truck on a longer ride. At least until I can figure this out.

 

[TKOPerformance]

I went back and reread this whole thread to reacquaint myself with your problem. IMO, a problem that simply went away on its own screams electrical. If this was a mechanical issue it would not just go away. The problem is electrically there are a lot of things that it could be. Here are two more semi shots in the dark:

1.) There is no direct connection between the accelerator pedal and the engine for the 6.0. Its what's known as "throttle by wire". Essentially there is a sensor on the accelerator pedal that tells the PCM how much throttle you are giving it, and it fuels accordingly. These sensors have been known to go bad, and cause symptoms exactly like what you were describing initially. In essence the sensor only puts out idle voltage all the way through its travel. No codes, because the PCM "thinks" you aren't asking it to accelerate. In other words it doesn't see anything wrong. The problem with this diagnosis is that it doesn't explain your smoking issue I don't think, but its still something to consider.

2.) I'm smacking my own hand for not asking you about the EGR system. If the EGR system is still in place this could also cause your issue. The system doesn't work on a cold engine, so you aren't having any problems when its cold. Once it warms up, if it tries to operate and gets stuck open you end up with an engine that doesn't want to rev because its breathing exhaust gas instead of fresh air. This could explain the smoking you were seeing, because the engine is trying to increase speed by adding fuel, but there's not enough oxygen to mix with it to keep it from smoking because the intake is full of oxygen poor, nonreactive exhaust gas.

One more thought, you said you cleared the PCM by disconnecting the batteries. I don't think that fully resets the PCM. Older systems worked like that because they had no KAM (Keep Alive Memory), so when the computer lost power it lost anything that wasn't there permanently. These newer systems use the KAM to prevent the loss of data when the batteries are disconnected. What I'm reading is that you need to disconnect the batteries and ground the positive cable for 10+ seconds to manually dump the KAM. It can also be done with a scanner or tuner. I'm wondering if in its time in purgatory somehow the KAM was cleared and with it went your issue (in other words that it was a programming/data issue not a hard electrical issue).

Just some thoughts. I'd try venturing out with it farther and farther with a plan as to how to get back if it leaves you stranded. Maybe, just maybe you got really lucky and now its fine.

 

[erwatt]

Thanks for the feedback TKOPerformance. I'm going to try to take her out farther and farther from home with a plan to get her home if she leaves me stranded. One thing I didn't mention is that the weather is cooler than the last time I tried to drive her around. I don't know if that is a factor or not. Also, the truck is not smoking, pinging, running ruff, or anything out of the ordinary. I'm thinking of running her for a few hundred miles and I just might take her to a diesel shop for a checkup. Again, thanks TKOPerformance for the support.
Oh, there is one more thing. I usually use Internet Explorer. But with this forum it runs extremely slow. I also get errors and it shuts down my browser. This has happened twice since I read your post. I switched to Firefox and it seems to work okay. Am I the only one having this problem? I remember it was like this last year. That was one of the reasons why I didn't spend more time on this forum. Again, thanks.

 

[TKOPerformance]

I had also considered that the ambient temperature might be a factor. I suppose we'll see in the spring/summer.

Can't comment on IE. I've been running Firefox since before I joined the forum.

Keep posting to let us know how its doing. So many of these threads end with no resolution, which meas either it was solved but we don't know how, or it was never solved, but either way there's no help there for other people searching the forum with similar issues.

 

[erwatt]

Just a quick update. I have been driving the truck daily. I didn't make note of the mileage before I started driving, but I have ran out a little more than 1/2 tank of diesel. The truck seems to be performing okay. It picks up speed quickly and holds highway speeds without any hesitation. There is a noise I haven't figured out yet. It has a hissing sound when I accelerate at higher speeds. It almost sounds like a hose leak from suction. The weather is not so good but I'll look at it the next sunny day. Outside of that, the truck is building my confidence that it will be okay, or at least, no serious issues.