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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
so i'm looking to get an exhaust system for my truck. 4in turbo back, prolly just a single side exit. i'm just wondering what the difference is between stainless/t409/t304/ and just plain ole aluminized? i mean other than the obvious. the different grades of stainless are more expensive i got that. but i'm just wondering about performance wise. does the higher grade stainless dissipate heat faster allowing you to run with lower egt's? does it sound better? sound is a bigger concern for me because i don't tow too much and if i do it's usually nothing heavy or very far so egts arent a big problem for me. just wondering if i can save a few hundred bucks and still be happy with my choice. thanks for the help! :ford:

also i am a fan of banks and was wondering if anyone had any info on their power elbow assembly? is it really worth the 200 or so plus bucks?
 

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Money is the difference between the two, they will perform identically. Personally I wouldn't spend an extra cent buying stainless, unless of course you spend lots of time crawling around under the truck. That's about the only time you'll see it. Some will point out the stainless system will last longer before rusting out.

Banks = very little bang for your buck.
 

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Banks stuff is top of the line quality. At the end of the day 4" pipe is 4" pipe. If you live in a snow climate, invest in the stainless. Aluminized will eventually rust out. Sound comes down to brand, some are quieter than others. I went with banks because it is the quietest. If you don't want quiet, check out mbrp or silverline. Both are highly recommended. All of them, including banks, are within 50 bucks of each other. I really like my banks, very quiet and was a sinch to install.
 

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There is certainly a differnce between t-304 and t-409 SS. The 304 has a higher quality in that it has a higher chromium and nickle content that 409. One will stay looking like a mirror for the most part he other does and will tarnish. Better yet here is MBRP's explanation:

What makes stainless steel “stainless” is the addition of chromium to the alloy. Chromium creates a film that serves as a buffer against corrosion, even when it is cut or scratched. The more chromium there is in the alloy the more resistant it is to oxidization or corrosion. The addition of nickel to the alloy enhances this resistance.
T-409 has a chromium content of between 10.50 – 11.75 percent and a nickel content of .50 percent. T-304 has a chromium content of between 18 – 20 percent and a nickel content of from 8 – 10 percent. In fact, there is so much chromium and nickel content in T-304, and so little ferrous material, that a magnet will not stick to it.
A Pro Series T-304 system will not rust or oxidize. It will develop a golden color over time when exposed to high heat. XP Series T-409 has enough ferrous material in it that it will show surface oxidization, especially when exposed to salt or calcium chloride. This oxidization can be buffed off with stainless steel cleanser and a scouring pad. Rust through will not occur until well past the warranty period even under the most severe conditions.
If the customer is concerned about esthetics and long term appearance issues then Pro Series T304 is the product of choice. If however, the concerns are limited to durability and price then XP Series T-409 will be most satisfactory.
The full page can be found HERE
 

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does the higher grade stainless dissipate heat faster allowing you to run with lower egt's?
No.

does it sound better?
No.

just wondering if i can save a few hundred bucks and still be happy with my choice.
The difference between aluminized steel and stainless steel is longivity. The aluminized will last a few years, and the stainless will outlast the engine. The stock exhaust system on '99-up SuperDuty pickups is 409 stainless.

The difference between 409 and 304 stainless is just looks. The 409 will get surface rust and look "ugly", just like a normal steel exhaust system. The 304 will stay shiney and bright. But no one except the grase monkey that changes your oil will know the difference. If you install a nice 6" chrome tip on the tailpipe, it will look good regardless of which type of stainless the rest of the exhaust system is made out of.

I chose 409 stainless. I plan to keep my truck until the wheels fall off, so I wanted an exhaust system that will last. But I don't care what my grease monkey thinks about my exhaust system, so I didn't pay extra for the 304.

One reason to get the 304 is if you participate in "show and shine" contests at truck gatherings. The lifted 4x4s with lots of money invested in shiney stuff usually wins the best of show. My 4x2 hot rod towing machine is never going to win any beauty contests, but that's not why I bought it. ;)
 

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...does the higher grade stainless dissipate heat faster allowing you to run with lower egt's?...
Isn't this the wrong way to think about EGTs? High EGT damage is primarily to the engine and maybe the turbo, right? So, even if the exhaust had some ability to dissipate heat, thus displaying lower temp numbers on a gage, the damage would have already been done to the engine.
 

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Not with the pyro probe being pre-turbo.
 

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Not with the pyro probe being pre-turbo.
I understand that a larger diameter exhaust lets the engine pump more air through thus lowering EGTs (and internal engine temps) but the question was asked as if the exhaust material could just dissipate the heat quicker (radiation or convection but not necessarily increased air flow), if even possible this would not translate to any decreased internal engine temps just lower gage temps, right?
 

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I have had a cheap aluminized 4" turbo back exhaust on my truck for 4 years. I got it off of Ebay with a chrome 5" tip for around $275 sent to my door. From my last under truck inspection, it still has a lot of life left in it. I check it every time I change the oil cause life of the exhaust was a concern of mine since I went the cheap route. I am very happy with it. It is not to loud and performs great. I could barely tell the difference inside of the cab. Going through a shopping center with the windows down you tell it has a different exhaust. I bet I get another 4 years out of this exhaust. For the money I'll buy it again when this one rusts out.


If you're interested just do a search on Ebay. I am sure you'll find the company on there that sells it. I don't remember the name, but I looked not to long ago and they are still there and still the cheapest.
 

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I understand that a larger diameter exhaust lets the engine pump more air through thus lowering EGTs (and internal engine temps) but the question was asked as if the exhaust material could just dissipate the heat quicker (radiation or convection but not necessarily increased air flow), if even possible this would not translate to any decreased internal engine temps just lower gage temps, right?
You're misunderstanding on a couple of counts.

1] Lower EGT is because of lower back pressure in the exhaust system - as a result of the design and size and smoothness and decreased restriction inside the exhaust pipe and muffler. It has nothing to do with airflow volume, just with whatever airflow there is gets on down the pipe and out of the way without causing unnecessary back pressure. It's the back pressure that requires the engine to work harder and thus raises EGT.

2] Pre-turbo gauge temps hopefully shows close to the temp of the combustion chamber, exhaust valves, and the exhaust manifold, e.g., engine temps. It doesn't matter what happens to the heat after it passes the thermocouple. It cools down fast, especially as it goes through the turbo, but whether the exhaust system cools it down or not is not relavent on a 7.3L PSD.

[Different story on newer diesels with exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) and diesel particulate filter (DPF)].
 

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Airflow volume has a big effect on EGT. Here is an experiment you can do at home. Heat a large skillet on your stove, no grease just a dry skillet. Then place the index finger of both hands 1/4" from the bottom of the skillet. Now blow on one finger to see the difference.
 

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1] Lower EGT is because of lower back pressure in the exhaust system - as a result of the design and size and smoothness and decreased restriction inside the exhaust pipe and muffler...
I agree with the above statement Smokey, but low backpressure is a result of a system that can flow more, they are not unrelated items. Less hot gas staying behind in the cylinders due to increased cool air flowing into the cylinders allows the engine to run cooler. But this was not my question, just a lead in to it.


2] Pre-turbo gauge temps hopefully shows close to the temp of the combustion chamber, exhaust valves, and the exhaust manifold, e.g., engine temps. It doesn't matter what happens to the heat after it passes the thermocouple...
I agree with this totally. Maybe I misunderstood what the original poster meant when they mentioned the exhaust disipating heat to help with EGTs. But that was the subject that I was calling attention to. Assuming that I didn't misunderstand the original post, I was trying to say (not very well) that heat loss through radiation and/or convection in the exhaust system after leaving the cylinder would do nothing to help EGTs as you have said.
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
thanks dieseldude for pointing that out. after i read your post i realized i was way off in my understanding of egts. it surprises me how much knowledge everyone has on here. thanks for the schooling yall! i think a stainless t 409 exhaust is prolly what ill end up going with. anybody have any experience with a dual exhaust system for our trucks?? mainly sound, im sure they sound different than a single system. just wondering if anybody has one and likes it more than a single exit system. thanks again for the schoolin!!!
 

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anybody have any experience with a dual exhaust system for our trucks?? mainly sound, im sure they sound different than a single system.
Dual exhaust pipes on a turbodiesel engine is silly. You have one turbo, and all the exhaust gas has to come out of that turbo into the downpipe. Most dual exhaust systems for our trucks split the exhaust after the downpipe, and some even wait until after the muffler. What good does that do? It's for looks only, and does zero for performance.

If you are trying to emulate the hot V8 cars of the late '60s -early '70 that had tuned headers and two complete exhaust systems (perhaps tied together with a crossover pipe), then that won't work on a turbodiesel engine because of the turbo.

But it looks kool to the ignorant. :wink2:
 

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Discussion Starter #15
ok... so for a budget builder like me, would y'all say my best bet is an mbrp 4in turbo back system or just straight pipe the stock system. i also plan on having the truck till the wheels fall off. thanks for y'alls opinions and info!!
 

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Guess you did not like my Ebay exhaust idea. That is the best bang for the buck you'll find. It is on there now. Full 4" turbo back exhaust for $275 to your door. You'll need to buy a tip, but the same company sells those, so figure a total cost of $325.

I paid a shop to put mine on. they charged me $450. That included the cost and istallation of a Autometer pyrometer and gauge pod. Which I recomend if you are going to tow. So you may be looking at around $800 for a full exhaust, guage, and installation. That is cheaper than some exhaust kits. Sounds like a budget minded deal to me.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
hows the sound with the ebay deal? any drone on the hwy?
 

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Sounds great. I was actually a little disappointed when I first left the exhaust shop. The truck sounded stock, from insided the cab, in all situations. Roll the window down next to a gaurdrail and you can hear the sweet sound of an opened up PSD. My sons principal said my truck was louder than a Mack truck when I pulled up to pick him up at school the other day. Even after 4 years 50K miles it still sounds stock to me inside of the cab. It is still in great physical shape as well. I know I will get at least 6 years out of it, and probably 8-10.
 
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