When is Ford going to learn how to build a decent diesel engine ?
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EMISSIONS and EPA compliance have changed the diesel game in all sectors of the market from light duty pickups to fire trucks.
I have a pair of 6.7s and haven't ran into a issue with either one,,,,, yet. I also have a 2002 7.3 Powerstroke that just keeps on going. As you say, only time and miles will tell the story. To think Ford is the only manufacturer dealing with issues is wrong. We recently purchased (4) 2018 Duramax diesels. Two of the four have had injector issues; one truck has had all 8 injectors replaced; the other had a pair of injectors replaced. We are also dealing with numerous "check engine" light warning on one of the trucks. We have been buying Duramax / Allison equipped trucks since 2004 with very minimal issues. I'm not impressed with the maintenance record so far from what we have seen out of the '18 models.
If I had to do it all over again, I would purchase another Ford diesel. I have been driving Ford diesels for a while, dating back to 1988. Now that was a real truck, especially after I put a Banks Sidewinder turbo kit on the truck. It was a toughest thing on the road for its time!
I have a pair of 6.7s and haven't ran into a issue with either one,,,,, yet. I also have a 2002 7.3 Powerstroke that just keeps on going. As you say, only time and miles will tell the story. To think Ford is the only manufacturer dealing with issues is wrong. We recently purchased (4) 2018 Duramax diesels. Two of the four have had injector issues; one truck has had all 8 injectors replaced; the other had a pair of injectors replaced. We are also dealing with numerous "check engine" light warning on one of the trucks. We have been buying Duramax / Allison equipped trucks since 2004 with very minimal issues. I'm not impressed with the maintenance record so far from what we have seen out of the '18 models.
If I had to do it all over again, I would purchase another Ford diesel. I have been driving Ford diesels for a while, dating back to 1988. Now that was a real truck, especially after I put a Banks Sidewinder turbo kit on the truck. It was a toughest thing on the road for its time!
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105 Posts
I'm relatively in the same boat as you, having recently started looking into Diesels again, but being very gun shy as I own a 2004 F250 KR which came a leftover 2003 6.0. Quite possibly the worst engine ever put into a truck in history IMHO. Some will say they they are great engines, mine has not been from the day I drove if home from the dealer it started having issues and to this day, remains problem ridden. I also own (company truck) a '14 F350 6.7 and it has been relatively OK, but currently has intermittent check engine lights depending on which way the wind is blowing that day. When the 17's came out, I looked pretty hard at 'em but ultimately decided to pass just to see what kinds of issues owners would have. Several years go by, and it's the same old story, unreliable engines plagued with issues mostly due to emissions crap. Chevy's are no better, nor are Rams, nor are GMC's, nor is anything for that matter, they all have problems. I also own 2 Mercedes Diesels, and they are head and shoulders better engines than anything American made, you just can't get 1 in a truck that can tow anything substantial. Personnally, I'm prolly going back to gas engines in a Superduty or Ram... I don't have to drive a truck everyday so can keep the mileage down, and hope to get lucky for a change. Years ago, I swapped a 1996 EFI 460 Ford and E4OD trans into an 89 Bronco including a full harness swap, transfer case adapter, etc. and it was bulletproof for years and years, and I beat the hell out of it offroading. The only repairs it had in all those years was a Tranny Temp Sender, an Ignition Switch, and a pair of Bosche AGM Batts... Other than that, it ran like a clock and never left me stranded... I'm done with American made diesels...
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So that's not a motor problem....It's an emissions systems problem. Apples and oranges.
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Oy Vey! There are more 6.7's on the road than the other two flavors so of course there will be more in the shop. My 11 got a turbo and EGR cooler at 125k but those are wear items, spendy but wear items. 7.3's are great motors but they only put out about half the power. They're also about due for suspension and interior rebuilds. Wife offered me a new 6.7, can buy a new one myself too, but we don't need one.
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I've had 10 Super Duty diesel trucks since my first 1997 7.3, I loved all of them and actually had Ford buy back 2!
My latest 2019 is by far my favorite, I took a bath getting rid of a 2018 Chevy Dura Max DRW LTZ crew cab to buy this new Ford, it was well worth it!
My latest 2019 is by far my favorite, I took a bath getting rid of a 2018 Chevy Dura Max DRW LTZ crew cab to buy this new Ford, it was well worth it!
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598 Posts
The 6.7 in my 2017 F450 is a great engine.
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My 2011 6.7 f250 was purchased new 12/2010 and built 10/2010. We have only had one problem, a defective rearview mirror harness causing bad connections to the backup camera. It has been reliable for 8 years now but I do admit the EGR and DPF make me nervous. There is a procedure to clean the DPF at home which I’m going to tackle in the next year. I spoke with a shop that cleans them and they said regeneration burns off most stuff but leaves ash in the filter. All in all we are happy with the truck but all this extra maintenance is making me lean towards the new 7.3 gasser next time. Maybe not... who knows what I’ll want in 5-10 years ?
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I have a 2015 f-350 with the 6.7 and for the most part the truck has been okay. I had some rear camera issues but I ended up finding a broken wire behind the bumper, spliced it, and have been good ever since
I too have been thinking about the new 7.3 Gasser since they released the stats a few weeks ago. I think the only thing I might miss with my current truck is the engine brake when I'm going downhill thru the hills and mountains.
I too have been thinking about the new 7.3 Gasser since they released the stats a few weeks ago. I think the only thing I might miss with my current truck is the engine brake when I'm going downhill thru the hills and mountains.
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The only trouble I’ve had with my ‘15 6.7 DRW is I just replaced the DPF at 96K after towing an 18K# fifth wheel for the last 40K miles! Only $4,000 including labor!
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5,465 Posts
DO NOT MAKE THE MISTAKE OF COMPARING A 2011 TRUCK WITH A 2017+ WITH A 3RD GENERATION SCORPION. My observation is that at this point in 2019 most of the gremlins have been taken care of.
The EPA gets all manner of blame for stuff but they do not tell manufacturers what to do to get the engine to compliance. They issue the standard and require warnings and certain responses to problems. They are to blame for you getting shut down according to persons I know in the compliance engineering business. To my point: How are Hino, Isuzu, Mercedes 6.4L and 7.2L diesels doing? I know it is not an equal compariosn
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598 Posts
That wasn't a warranty item up to 100,000 miles?
How are they separate?
I’m kinda with the OP, though more in search of info than maybe having already decided.
I have a 6.4, with just a shave over 100k and it’s outta here ASAP. Stock tune, only branded fuel, a commonly and widely accepted fuel additive (to avoid derailing the convo,) never below 1/4 tank. Every drop of fluid in the truck is as specifically recommended in the engine supplement from Ford, oil/filter/fuel filters changed every 5000mi, fresh coolant/trans/diff fluids, etc., etc., etc. There’s no preventive maintenance I skip, and it’s a turd.
Low fuel rail pressure codes, limp mode due to trans temp sensor, severe death wobble from right front, and just waiting for a cab off $10k repair for something fuel related I’m sure. I’m terrified of it and it’s gone as soon as this weekend. I’ve had it.
Is there anything made that actually works? I can buy an actual ranch for less than Ford sells a light duty “King Ranch” pickup to drive around on it. And still - failing engines and death wobbles? I’m not an idiot that brags about not even having to change the oil for 3 years or something, I take care of machinery. I just want to know what I can buy that will last with proper maintenance. ESPECIALLY if they’re going to sell it for almost $100,00.
(Note: Ford isn’t alone, I’m just about to lose my decades long brand loyalty if I can find something worth buying. I’m open to suggestions.)
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Cause when you can remove the emissions and the motor is still able to run....
Why are there two different warranties.....motor and emissions......
Cause they are two different things.
Complaining about your 6.4L in a 6.7L discussion is apples and oranges as well...
Cause Ford didn't build/engineer the 6.4L.....
Why are there two different warranties.....motor and emissions......
Cause they are two different things.
Complaining about your 6.4L in a 6.7L discussion is apples and oranges as well...
Cause Ford didn't build/engineer the 6.4L.....
Quitters never win.....Good luck!
Semantics I guess. The emissions are from the motor, the emission controls are part of the motor, and the emission controls are causing motor problems. I think going forward it’s pretty widely accepted the days of removing them are pretty much the way of the dodo. I could be wrong, but I wouldn’t want to be on the customer list when the feds go ape**** on it. (FWIW, I think that’s complete crap, and my 6.4 had a beautifully done delete very early in its life.)
As far as comparing the 6.4 to the 6.7, not apples and oranges at all in this case. Specifically, the 6.7 is carrying some of the same issues, just with an $80,000+ price tag. That’s the point of the post to begin with - stop making the same issues show up in a truck. If they want to announce that “hey, there’s just nothing we can do about this, so you’re gonna have problems with it so here’s a cheap 1 ton throwaway truck,” then fair enough. But, they keep putting cheap corner cutting hardware in the suspension and steering, and we are still seeing significant emission issues crapping out motors.
I understand forum horror stories sometimes magnify issues and in many cases are statistical anomalies. The 6.4 engine issues are not either one of those, and seeing the same issues a decade later in the 6.7 is not good. Will the 6.7 be remembered the same way? I highly doubt it. I think it’s already beyond that. What it isn’t beyond is we’re already into the “avoid 11-14 models” now that they have some years on them. Is the next avoid-if-at-all possible the 17-19?
Just get it right, or - gasp - stand by your shiny new $$$$$ product after your crappy warranty expires and you find known issues.
As far as quitters never win - that’s almost true. In the case of the 6.4, only quitters win. (If you get out before the $10k repair and/or the $17,000 reman.) But, thank you for the well wishes. I hope I luck into something reliable, and REALLY hope that it’s a Ford.
TL;DR
I was really hoping/assuming the 17-19 generation was finally done right, but now I’m seeing things that worry me because they sound too familiar. Is it a good truck, and worth buying?
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The 15's and newer trucks are good motors. The 15's got a upgrade to the turbo which made a huge difference. The 17's got a bump on HP and torque. The 20's got even more. Engine is reliable out of the box. No need to change anything. My 15 has 64,000 miles without a single issue other than a recall for a PVC valve. I just maintain mine like you do. I have the Lariat trim, and I have seen new trucks in the $80,000 range but I didn't need that many bells and whistles. Sometimes lest things to go wrong.
You do know that as soon as some guy has a problem thats all you hear but the majority of our trucks don't experience any problems. I have never experienced death wobble and Ya i know what it is. My fuel system is still going strong without a single issue. I don't remember when I last filled my DEF but I'm sure the message will come up soon enough. I tow a 13,000# 5th wheel and a total of 30,000 miles so I work my truck. Only thing I would never buy is a truck that someone modified. You never know what was done or how. If it's deleted than who has the tuner and is it a good tune. It would be a mystery.
I am a loyal Ford owner. I have 5 currently LOL All on the road.
I can buy that, honestly the early 11-12 models having emissions and/fuel issues combined with 3rd gen death wobble reports just made me basically panic since I’m about to pull the trigger on one. Or at least was planning on it.
I think the 6.7 might still be my answer, I certainly hope so. The only thing I know for sure is that the 6.4 isn’t. Honestly, if I could magically spend $5k and make it reliable I’d do it in a heartbeat and never even think of replacing it. The truck is beautiful, and so close to being right. But....she’s gonna stab me in the back and I’m not sure with the EPA clowns and their absurd level of unchecked authority that anyone can make a diesel that will run for a decade plus and a few hundred thousand miles anymore.
I think the 6.7 might still be my answer, I certainly hope so. The only thing I know for sure is that the 6.4 isn’t. Honestly, if I could magically spend $5k and make it reliable I’d do it in a heartbeat and never even think of replacing it. The truck is beautiful, and so close to being right. But....she’s gonna stab me in the back and I’m not sure with the EPA clowns and their absurd level of unchecked authority that anyone can make a diesel that will run for a decade plus and a few hundred thousand miles anymore.
Haven't done a damn thing besides maintenance, and 25,000 oil changes :winking: Still have the heater recall but no downtime to take her in.
Make these trips weekly, this MPG was achieved with cruise control set @ 70mph. MPGs were higher but I left truck running when I pulled over at rest stop to do business.
Make these trips weekly, this MPG was achieved with cruise control set @ 70mph. MPGs were higher but I left truck running when I pulled over at rest stop to do business.
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