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Discussion Starter #1
I'm suffering from the broken tab on the airbox syndrome and I'm also needing to replace the K&N filter that came on my truck when I bought it. Everything else related to the motor is stock except for the CCV mod. I'm thinking seriously about the DIY Tymar that many have done.

My question is...Will the open air element intake cause turbo surge? Enought to be bad? I'm really not wanting to go down the "once-you-change-this-ya-gotta-change-that-too" road. Meaning, I don't want to have to change my turbo or housing just for trying to keep dirt out of my motor. (And by the way, doesn't an early build 99 already have a Wicked Wheel in it? Thought I read that somewhere.)

I'm just wanting to protect the inside of my motor and have a normal running 7.3. How about a stock paper filter with duct tape around the top of the box? Is that too simple. Suggestions appreciated. Remember, I don't need 400 horsepower just yet.
 

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[ QUOTE ]
Remember, I don't need 400 horsepower just yet.

[/ QUOTE ]

You just wait! You will have PMS very soon. I think you would be fine. Do you have a chip or programmer? If you don't then you should be fine with no surge. No problem. But with the early 99 you do have that special wheel in it. But I do think your turbo is little different than the newer ones. So I am not totally positive on it. I am sure someone will chip in some more info...
Have a good thanksgiving,
Steven
 

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No, but it will let you hear it better if/when it does surge.
 

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[ QUOTE ]
I'm suffering from the broken tab on the airbox syndrome and I'm also needing to replace the K&N filter that came on my truck when I bought it. Everything else related to the motor is stock except for the CCV mod. ................. Suggestions appreciated. Remember, I don't need 400 horsepower just yet.

[/ QUOTE ]Well it you are looking for the best filtration, it is a paper filter and the Motorcraft Severe Duty AIS is the best of the best. About $200 from www.powerstrokeshop.com with free shipping for the holidays. Flows more than the OEM box and filters better.
 

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I have an early 99 and an actual TYMAR setup (not homemade), I have no stall/surge issues whatsoever.
 

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No, but it will let you hear it better if/when it does surge.

[/ QUOTE ] I agree with this, it WONT cause surge/stall..but when you have it you will hear it.

[ QUOTE ]
I have an early 99 and an actual TYMAR setup (not homemade), I have no stall/surge issues whatsoever.

[/ QUOTE ] Hard to belive, because when I put it on my early 99, I had the "WHOOSH" on hard acceleration, and shifting, or if you just reved it and let off quick. THAT IS NORMAL, and does it even with stock boxes, you just cant hear it. (Terminoligy seems to flip and flop,) For some,
ILUVSTEELIES has one of the best definitions I think I have read on here..
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TURBO STALL is the formation of local flow deficits that rotate around the compressor. Flow deficits or cells are a region in which local mass flow is near zero. These cells rotate at an angular speed which is a fraction of the rotor speed.

English version: Each compressor blade pushes an equal amount of air through the turbo. If, for some reason, one or more blades push less air, then a low flow area is created. This low flow, or flow deficit, does not pass through the compressor, but spins with it at a slower speed than the compressor is spinning. The blades, spinning faster, pass through this low flow cell and drop their air load and upon exiting the cell pick up the load. This loading and unloading of the compressor blades, fatigues the blades and results in possible failure. It can also push the compressor in to a surge condition.

TURBO SURGE is the axis symmetrical oscillation of flow through the compressor that can include reverse flow.

English version: The normal flow of air through the turbo compressor wheel is slowed and/or reversed, then accelerated back to normal. These repeating oscillation cycles cause uneven thrust loads on the bearings and if the oscillations hit a harmonic frequency of the compressor blades, they can cause blade damage.

The quick and easy version for the rest of us: Turbo stall is the loss of normal air flow through the turbo compressor wheel in certain areas of the compressor wheel, and if the area gets large enough, can lead to turbo surge. Turbo surge is repeated momentary loss and then recovery of all normal air flow through whole compressor wheel.


Turbo stall on our trucks is hard for some ears to pick up. It sounds akin to your household water hose when you get air trapped in the line or when you get water in your compressor air line. That spitting type sound. This usually occurs when your running very close to the surge line just before the turbo goes into a full surge condition.

Surge is the classic psssst psssst psssst noise under constant load that people describe or the woosh between shifts.

The woosh between shifts is not bad because you are not at a boost level where the cycling is going to damage the turbo.

At constant load surge however, you can cause turbo bearing damage or running just shy of the surge line.

It's a bit more complicated than this, but basically think of your turbos blades as wings. As your boost pressure comes up, the RPM of the turbo and airflow out of the turbo are not linear.

The turbo blades are still still trying to grab the same amount of air with every turn but airflow out of the turbo is falling off in relation to it's rotational speed.

This causes the air just outside and slightly inside of the turbo blades to rotate with the wheel and just like how an airplane wing would loose lift if a tailwind that matched the speed of the plane suddenly blew into it from behind, your turbo blades loose their lift.

As a consequence you hear a bang or woosh as your compressed intake charge pops out to atmosphere for a second, wheel speed goes very high, once boost pressure falls below the surge line the intake re-pressurises (please note you only loose just a few lbs of boost and thats why your needle fluctuates) and the whole cycle repeats itself until you back out of the throttle enough to get below the surge line.

It's a bit more complicated, but basically the WW is just a lower trim wheel that will make higher pressure at a lower flow before it surges (akin to a boat propeller with a shallower pitch) and the ATS housing just bleeds off some of the air from the inducer so that flow won't stall and your turbo blades won't loose their lift.


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I have a friend with a 2000 PSD and a DP Tuner and he definalty has surge/stall. my turbo has NEVER made any of the noises his does. maybe I'm just lucky.
 

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ive got a tymar, btm, adn 6 position. 135k of HARD HARD miles.

yup, hte overall combo surges once in a while when im being ignorant with the 6 speed adn big loads.

but im not overly worried. replacement turbos are like 500 bucks or something, and my turbo seems as good as new.
guys sure seem to spend a LOT of money curing something that doesnt seem to hurt anything.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Well...I went ahead and ordered the AIS Ford replacement filter system to go with a good system with less likelyhood of the dreaded surge. Thanks to all!
 

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[ QUOTE ]
Well...I went ahead and ordered the AIS Ford replacement filter system to go with a good system with less likelyhood of the dreaded surge. Thanks to all!

[/ QUOTE ] Not a bad choice , but fearing surge with a Tymar or eqivlent filter is not right! As mentioned above several times, THE FILTER doesnt cause it,
 

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Well...I went ahead and ordered the AIS Ford replacement filter system to go with a good system with less likelyhood of the dreaded surge. Thanks to all!

[/ QUOTE ] Not a bad choice , but fearing surge with a Tymar or eqivlent filter is not right! As mentioned above several times, THE FILTER doesnt cause it,

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, if you have surge after installing a filter, it's not the filters fault, the surge was always there, it's just you can hear it now!
 

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That is a great filter choice!! I have a homemade tymar on mine but would move to a tymar with no problems. You get great filtration, cold air, and good flow.
DENNY
 

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[ QUOTE ]
Turbo stall on our trucks is hard for some ears to pick up. It sounds akin to your household water hose when you get air trapped in the line or when you get water in your compressor air line. That spitting type sound. This usually occurs when your running very close to the surge line just before the turbo goes into a full surge condition.

Surge is the classic psssst psssst psssst noise under constant load that people describe or the woosh between shifts.

The woosh between shifts is not bad because you are not at a boost level where the cycling is going to damage the turbo.

At constant load surge however, you can cause turbo bearing damage or running just shy of the surge line.


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I am still curious about turbo surge .. occasionally I get something similar that I have always taken to be surge but I could be wrong .because when i read the description above turbo surge seems more subtle or quiet.

mine is more random but always between 1600~1900 rpms and usually when I use heavy throttle but not floored say 75%..but it feels more like a sneeze especially between gears where the boost def. drops but goes back almost like the transmission slipped but still pulls. and I never seem to notice it with the pedal to the floor take offs etc which leads me to think if it was the tranny it would be worst.
so I am hoping it is the... The woosh between shifts is not bad because you are not at a boost level where the cycling is going to damage the turbo. what do you think.
 
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