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Won't start - here is what I tried

2K views 26 replies 5 participants last post by  tcnofh1 
#1 ·
Won't start. I probably did something wrong & now am trying to figure out what I broke.
Put a quart of BG 245 Premium Diesel Fuel System Cleaner in the tank before driving to the
station to fill up.
I knew that 1 quart in the approximately 10-15 gallons of Diesel in the tank was too much BG, but the station was only 5 miles away.
Filled up, now there was 35 gallons of Diesel mixed w/ the BG, good.
Drove around on some errands, then home, all good.
Would not start the next day.
I guessed the rich BG mixture might have acted as a solvent in the fuel tank, pickup screen might be clogged.
But when I disconnect the fuel pump outlet hose and turn on the pump power, Diesel comes out of the pump.
No idea if the flow is good or restricted.
Ordered all the parts from Riffraff to add a fuel pressure gauge.
Also possible the rich BG mixture messed up something in the fuel pump.
I have a spare pump, will install if pressure is low.
Adding to my confusion, there was a ICP code when I scanned.
I tried starting w/ ICP disconnected, still no start. Ordered a new ICP anyway.
Have not checked fuses, will do that next.
Intend to unplug the heater in the fuel bowl, not needed here anyway, and it is the original 23 year old heater.
Any ideas will be appreciated!
 
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#2 ·
If your fuel heater fuse is blown, you won't get a WTS light. Or any power to the PCM.

But if you were able to scan it, the PCM has power. What was the ICP code?
 
#3 ·
P1212 - ICP voltage not at expected level:
  • biased sensor or circuit (no idea what that means)
  • open signal return
  • low oil in resivor
 
#4 ·
biased sensor or circuit (no idea what that means)
It means that there's either too little or too much resistance in the circuit. That causes the ICP signal to be out of it's normal range.

Here's the info from the service manual.
CONTINUOUS DIAGNOSTIC TROUBLE CODE (DTC) P1212

  • Note: This code may set after a high-pressure oil system repair (i.e., injector change). Drive vehicle to clear air from system after repair, and clear code.
  • Continuous DTC P1212 indicates that there was no ICP detected during crank (long crank time).
  • Possible causes:
    • high-pressure oil system repair
    • empty/low oil reservoir at crank
    • low engine oil level or incorrect viscosity
    • IPR circuit fault
    • damaged low-pressure oil pump
    • damaged IPR valve
    • damaged ICP sensor
    • damaged high-pressure oil pump
  • Check engine oil level.
 
#5 ·
Is there any way to pump out the fuel tank?
I suspect there is a fuel blockage in the pickup/tank screen filtering system.
Seems to be some kind of "fuel theft" barrier that prevents putting a hose in the tank.
The tank is full, must weigh 300 lbs, not looking forward to trying to drop it full.
 
#6 ·
There's no obstruction it the filler that I know of. It's a little convoluted, so you may be just dealing with getting the hose threaded in. Try twisting the hose as you insert it.

You may be right about the in-tank filters being clogged. I believe vans use a steel tank instead of plastic like on pickups, and the lining may be flaking off.
 
#7 ·
Have you checked the fuel filter on the bowl?. Do you get a steady stream of fuel when you open the fuel bowl drain and turn the key on?
 
#8 ·
I see a stream of fuel from the disconnected fuel pump "out" fitting, but I don't know what it is supposed to look like, might be weak, might not.
Fuel pressure gauge will be here next week, then I will know for sure what the fuel bowl pressure is.
No fuel bowl drain, I removed & capped that long ago, due to too much leakage from the yellow valve.
 
#9 ·
So if you removed the drain how do you plan on dealing with any water that might enter the fuel system?

The fuel drain leak can be repaired for a couple of dollars with new O rings

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#10 ·
If you're getting more than a trickle out of the fuel pump, then your pickup screens aren't clogged that bad.
You can use the fuel pump to drain the tank.

I agree that plugging the fuel filter drain is a bad move. You should put the drain valve back on.
 
#11 ·
I installed a DAHL 100 fuel filter / water separator between the fuel tank out and fuel pump inlet. Works very well!

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#12 ·
How does the fuel bowl filter look?
 
#13 ·
Don't know yet. Waiting on delivery of the fuel pressure gauge. I'll look at that filter when it's time to take all that apart.
I expect the filter to look like new, as it only has 8k miles on it, and very little gets through the 2 micron DAHL fuel filter, so the stock filter is well protected.
I deleted the drain valve because the yellow plastic drain valve body warped in such a way that the
o-rings were not compressed enough to seal.
I replaced the original fuel bowl drain valve with a new one, after a few years, that one warped too.
Thus the capping of the fuel bowl valve and installation of the DAHL.
 
#14 · (Edited)
IIRC my filler neck/tube had a piece of material in the bottom of it. Looked like a white polyethylene sock. Busted thru of course with some remnants intact. That is how I got most of my fuel out. When lowering tank, I used motorcycle trailer tie downs (cam type buckle) to support front & rear by attaching to drive shaft & outer body. For lowering & raising. Always had to do by myself, way too many times. Also installed a "T" fitting to install a vacuum gauge after Dahl filter to monitor restriction. I bought a case of the filters & glad I did. Always carry a spare or 2. They used to be $8 each when case bought. https://www.mddistributorsstore.com/baldwin-filters/101/dahl-fuel-filter-element

ON EDIT: I also carry a fuel guage on a short pice of 1/4"? hose to slip on outlet of pump. IIRC it would quickly go to 70lbs, then also did a flow check from pump & I think I would get approx a pint per 20 second cycle of key.
 
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#15 ·
If the Dahl filter is pre-pump, it may be causing too much restriction there an potentially causing the pump to suck air thru one of the connections between filter and pump, especially if you have the original clip-on, o-ring sealed pump inlet connector.
You may be better off with a 10 micron filter in the Dahl. It should still get you some good water separation there, but would be less restrictive.
You could drain the tank if necessary by clamping off the inlet to the Dahl filter with a pair of locking pliers, disconnecting and lowering the hose below the bottom of the tank. It will siphon out when you take the clamp off.
 
#16 ·
You may be better off with a 10 micron filter in the Dahl
Yes, the 2 micron filters are all I have, but I will look for 10 and there is also a 30 micron listed.
The DAHL has been installed for 10 or 15 years, this is the first fuel related problem, so I'll be going over the entire fuel system.
Looking forward to the fuel pressure gauge arriving next week from Riffraff!
 
#17 ·
Any update?
 
#18 ·
Parts arrived, I ordered both the straight and 90 degree fittings, will try the 90 first.
Hope to get time to work on this next week!
Bottle Alcoholic beverage Bottle cap Drink Gas
 
#19 ·
I can't remember which fitting I used, guessing straight, but having a gauge, in my opinion is a must have, for peace of mind when things start acting up. Careful not to cross-thread the aluminum. I see I need to replace the regulator next. It might be holding me back at WOT because pressure gets down to 40 lbs when on the chip & sets off the CEL. In stock setting it will never go below 50lbs, which I would still consider border line.
Also I should mention, I had occasional no start issue I chased for approx 2 years. I spoke to everyone I could, & tried just about everything. (no codes) All I knew was disconnecting batteries for approx a minute & reconnecting would fix it 95% of the time. (called toe truck once). I did clean all my grounds, & still would "no start" every once in a while. Of course the two times on vacation in the woods in GA with family, it would act up. Dealer tried to blame compression or injectors. Contribution & buzz test were adequate. Long story short Jody from DP Tuner suggested he has seen some PCM units starting to show up bad a little more due to age maybe? I acquired as spare unit to add to my stash and hooked it up. Its been approx 4 years now without a hiccup. I can still put the old unit back on & have it repeat itself. Must be static or bad solder joint? But for now, I'm 100% sure I finally solved the issue.
 
#20 ·
I'm looking forward to finding out the fuel pressure under all operating conditions.
I installed a Riffraff Fuel Rail Cross-over a couple years ago, the regulator has the "gold" spring. Should see 61-65psi.
Hope it does not need a PCM!
All was working well until I messed up the chemical concentration ratio for the BG 245 Diesel Fuel System Cleaner.
Something is plugged up somewhere.
 
#21 ·
Made some progress on the 7.3 today.
Replaced the fuel filter, in case it was plugged up.
Replaced the ICP sensor, as the old one had a code.
Still wont start, but a new clue emerged.

When cranking, big oil leak, running down the valley and out the valley rear drain.
A little research seems to indicate the leak could be HPOP related.
Guessing that if high pressure oil is leaking, injectors won't cycle,
might be related to starting issue?
Tire Wheel Automotive tire Road surface Tread

23 year old original HPOP, with almost 300k miles on it.

So if the weather continues to cooperate, I'll dig into the valley and see if I can spot where the leak is coming from.

Not going to install the fuel pressure gauge until the oil leak is fixed.

Feeling another Riffraff order soon.......
 
#22 · (Edited)
Made some progress today!
Received a cheap camera w/ flexible probe from Amazon yesterday.
Now I can look in the valley, while cranking, and see the leak.
Looks like the HPOP hose that goes to the head, behind the alternator, is leaking!
Will remove the alternator to verify.
Hoping I only need hoses, rather than trying to change out the HPOP too.
Water Font Fish Terrestrial plant Tree
 
#23 ·
Was able to uncover the driver side HPOP hose today!
Passenger side tomorrow.
Automotive tire Tire Motor vehicle Font Automotive lighting
 
#24 ·
Ugh, Glad you found it, but now I'm worried. I have close to 500k On my 99. It looks like another one of those fun spots for contorting arm & hands, while changing your skin tone.
 
#25 ·
Yes, lots of parts to take off to access these hoses.
Today I removed the alternator, GP relay, AIH relay.
Wife operated the starter while I watched the hose.
Big stream of oil from the split.
Debating whether I should add the oil rail crossover when I change out the hoses.
Not sure what the benefit is of the crossover.
Automotive tire Close-up Personal protective equipment Darkness Carmine
 
#26 ·
You probably won't notice a difference with it installed. Some say it makes the clacking softer.
 
#27 · (Edited)
Parts arrived (Thanks Riffraff!)
I bought the International HPOP hoses as they were a little less $$$ than the Eaton.
Replaced the ICP and the IPR, as I had it all apart and I never am going to do this again.
After it is running again, I'll replace the leaking Cylinder head oil rail end plug.
Running out of daylight and energy (it's almost 90° here today), tomorrow I hope to try to start it.
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Update March 6 2023: It started!
Hope to keep it on the road until it is banned for being an old Diesel!
 
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