[Jeffrey S Brooks]

WVO and WMO fuel incompatibilities

I destroyed my first injector pump about 4 years ago. At the time I was not sure what I was doing wrong, but after destroying several other injector pumps, and getting a fair amount of sludge in my fuel tank. I believe now I have figured it out.


Up until two years ago I had been filtering WVO into my fuel tank, then adding gasoline (petrol) on top of it. I finally took a jar of my filtered WVO and added gasoline (petrol) to it and let it sit. Within minutes a dark fluid precipitated out of solution. I concluded that the adding of gasoline (petrol) to settled and filtered WVO caused some contaminants to precipitate out of solution, which accumulated at the bottom of my fuel tank, until a critical moment, when it got sucked into the injector pump, which glued it and the injectors shut. So, I switched to blending external to the fuel tank. It then took me about a year of experiments to discover that I had to give the blend about 24-48 hours for most of the contaminants to precipitate out of solution.



Recently I explored WMO blending to understand the process better. I began with blending external to the fuel tank, and waiting three days for the precipitates to settle out, then I drained the sludge and filtered the blend into the fuel tank.

At the time I extracted a sample of the filtered WMO-80 fuel in two half-gallon (2-liter) bottles. One bottle of WMO-80 I blended with a sample of my previous fuel blend, which was WVO-80 blend. I let that 50/50 blend settle for a few days then poured off the dark liquid to see if there was a precipitate. Indeed there was. It was black goo at the bottom of the bottle accounting for about 1-2% of the solution.


Most of the time I burn a blend of 80% WVO and 20% gasoline (petrol). It runs fine indefinitely. Then, immediately prior to each injector pump failure I had added a small amount of petroleum oil to the blend to see how well it would work, but in each case it plugged my injectors and damaged my injector pump.

It turns out there is an incompatibility between filtered WVO and WMO. Therefore there are two possible solutions:


1) If I am going to blend WMO, then I should blend some WVO into it to cause the precipitate to form prior to filtering.

2) Run WVO-based blends in one tank, and WMO-based blends in another tank.



Note:
I found the precipitate sludge dissolves in lacquer thinner, and possibly other solvents. I am experimenting now and will give you my results.

So, my solution to not dropping my fuel tank for the 4th time to flush it out after this blending disaster is to add lacquer thinner to my fuel tank along with the current blend and hope that the sludge will dissolve into solution with the fuel blend and burn as fuel. Since the sludge produced by blending WVO with WMO accounts for about 1-2%, and it is soluble in MEK, and I made a 20 gallon (80L) batch, then I plan to add 1/2 gallon (2L) of MEK to my fuel tank.

What is this precipitate?

Some have speculated that the precipitate produced from blending WVO with WMO is "polymerization." I believe a more simple explanation can be found in considering that WMO is a saturated solution of free-carbon in a petroleum distillate. When WMO is added to a WVO solution with gasoline (petrol), the petroleum distillates and vegetable oil blend readily into solution; however, vegetable oil does not have the same capacity for dissolving free-carbon as petroleum distillates have, so the free-carbon precipitates out of solution. There might be other components in either the petroleum distillates and/or vegetable oil that also precipitate out of solution that form the precipitate into a sticky, rubbery substance.

 

[Jeffrey S Brooks]

Here is a photo of what my injectors look like after 2 weeks on WMO-80 black diesel blend that had been put into the fuel tank with a small residue of WVO-80 blend still in it.

Before pumping the black diesel into my fuel tank I had pumped the fuel tank out of the WVO-80 blend that was in it. From experience I know there is still about 3 gallons of fuel at the bottom of the tank after pumping it out through its drain.

I installed a set of injectors that had been ruined like this from my last WMO experiment. I have found I can clean the injectors up by soaking them in MEK or lacquer thinner over night, then scraping the residual coke off with a razor blade, then picking the small stuff off the corners with a dental pick, then wire brushing it clean.

I also pumped the fuel tank out again and filtered the contents again down to 1-micron. I found about 1% of the blend had turned into black sludge and a black liquid none of which is soluble in petroleum distillates. Here is a pick of what the fuel line looks like:

I have found I can remove the above sludge from coating my entire fuel system by creating a loop from the injector back to the fuel tank, and using an auxiliary fuel pump, I pour a few gallons of MEK or lacquer thinner into the fuel tank, then let the pump recirculate the solvent for about an hour.
After re-filtering the WMO-80 fuel blend and replacing the injectors the engine now runs good.

 

[Jeffrey S Brooks]

After pumping clean WMO-80 into my fuel tank, and after pumping out the previous WVO-80 blend, the engine ran fine for about three days, then it began to smoke and lose power. So, my solution at the time was to not drop my fuel tank for the 4th time to flush it out after this blending disaster, but to add MEK to my fuel tank along with the current blend and hope that the sludge would dissolve into solution with the fuel blend and burn as fuel.

Since the sludge produced by blending WVO with WMO accounts for about 1-2%, and it is soluble in MEK, and I made a 20 gallon (80L) batch, then I added about 1/2 gallon (2L) of MEK to my fuel tank. The engine seemed to improve marginally. But, after two weeks it did not improve sufficiently, so this weekend I replaced my injectors with a cleaned set.

 

[Jeffrey S Brooks]

So, I blended a tank of WMO-80 and put it into a tank that had contained a blend of WVO-80 that had been pumped out, but had a residue of three gallons, to see if that was sufficient to eliminate the effect of the WMO/WVO blend. In addition I was also testing traps that I had put into place in my fuel system since the first time I had this problem. I found the traps inadequate, so I have plans to improve them.

Replacing a set of injectors is now no problem, because I have three sets, and I have learned how to clean them up after a WMO/WVO blending experiment.

In this experiment I learned a couple of things.

1) For now burn WMO-blends in one tank, and burn WVO-blends in another tank. So, I plumbed my blending tank to my injector pump and added it as a selection on my 4-way fuel valve. The change has made my system more robust.

2) The WMO-blend tank should have a separate return from the WVO-blend tanks. So, yesterday I purchased another 4-way valve and installed it, so I can now return the fuel to the original tank, or move fuel from one tank to another via selecting a different tank for the return. I also have an auxiliary electric fuel pump, so I have used it to pump out the contaminated fuel tanks back to the processing tank, where I can easily remove the precipitates. I can also use this system to flush my fuel tanks out with lacquer thinner, which I will most probably do today.

3) One of the problems with blending WMO with WVO is the blend causes two different kinds of precipitates. One precipitate is black particulate, which is most probably free-carbon. It can easily be trapped by filtering. The production of particulate in this incompatible blend is so great that it quickly plugs up fuel filters. To solve this problem I installed an in situ fuel filter back-flushing system. This has allowed me to back flush my fuel filters in place as many times as I need to.

The other precipitate is liquid, so it will pass right through a filter; however, it is more dense than petroleum distillates, so it can still be trapped. It is not soluble in petroleum distillates, but soluble in water, alcohol, polar solvents and lacquer thinner. So, one solution that I have already done is add some lacquer thinner to my fuel.

 

[Jeffrey S Brooks]

WMO and WVO make some pretty nasty goop, but it is only a small percentage of the total fuel load, about 1-5%. I just pumped out my fuel tanks back into my blending tank, and let the sludge settle out, then re-filtered it. My engine has been running on it without a problem for 5 days.

My previous experiences with this toxic blend is, my engine will run for 200 miles in one run, or 3 days on short runs before it begins to smoke, lose power and eventually stall.

Pulling the injectors and soaking them in lacquer thinner over night, then wire brushing and dental picking the remaining carbon off the injectors tips; and pumping out the fuel tanks, refiltering the fuel; and back flushing the fuel filters, solves the problem.

 

[Jeffrey S Brooks]

Here is a video on WMO+WVO Incompatibility
Black diesel and waste vegetable oil make glue in your fuel system

 

[F250Truckin]

Jeffrey - you are a treat. Your experiments are so valuable to the rest of us. It is too bad we can't have an injector cleaning day to help you out.

 

[Jeffrey S Brooks]

Thanks, Jerry, I like the idea of an injector cleaning day; however, there is so little room inside the engine compartment only one person on each side of the engine could pull or install injectors, or return lines. But, I could see that we could do it in a relay so that only one person had to pull one of these mother-f***ing injectors out. The others could bring lots of cold fizzy liquid to relieve the stress of those few doing work.

two Sundays ago I cut out access panels out of each side of my engine compartment so that the next time I pull my injectors and return lines, then it will be a lot easier. I will photo the mod and upload them here later.

 

[F250Truckin]

I had a 1996 Chevy 6.5L and changing injectors was no walk in the park. I can't imagine trying to do it on a van. The inspection panels sounds like a wonderful idea. My 7.3 injectors are a work of art really, but nothing for the average guy to even attempt to clean. Pulling them is easy enough, but the technicalities of proper cleaning is best left to the pros. Lucky enough, they are an extremely durable piece of equipment.

 

[Jeffrey S Brooks]

Once you have removed the front seats, the dog house and hacked out some of the engine compartment servicing the injectors on a van with a 6.2/6.5L diesel engine is only a 4 hour walk in the park.

 

[jonrobinson01]

What would the chances be that if you had a two tank system and you run your diesel tank with a little blend of wmo until your wvo is warm and can switch over. Do you think it would cause the same damage as running a blend??

 

[Jeffrey S Brooks]

I have a three-tank system now, and now run WMO blends in one tank, and WVO blends in the other two tanks.

Running a standard two-tank system starting up on a blend then switching to WMO or WVO in a second tank is no problem. The problem only becomes evident when WVO and WMO are bended in the same tank.

The point of blending becomes obvious when we realize that the standard two-tank system is relevant for long haul applications, but not short haul. Whereas blending is relevant for short haul applications. This means the start-up tank on a standard two-tank system could be running blends, thereby reducing further the consumption of expensive and polluting new petroleum products.

 

[Jeffrey S Brooks]

Since July I have done a few more experiments with blends that reduce the resulting precipitates of lacquer and free-carbon. I am presently functioning under the hypothesis that waste vegetable and motor oils will cause precipitates to form when they are blended together. Those precipitates are lacquer and free-carbon.

I am also functioning under the hypothesis that blending them together in a blending tank with gasoline will cause those precipitates to form in a single event, which will allow the blender to trap and remove them, and end up with a fuel blend that will not cause any trouble for the engine. I have successfully accomplished this result.

Removing the lacquer and free-carbon from waste oils requires three things. 1) Blending WVO with WMO at 50% will force the precipitation of lacquer and free-carbon. 2) Then, adding gasoline will reduce the time required to precipitate out the contaminants. 3) Then, adding acetone at about 5% will force the remaining precipitates of lacquer and free-carbon. I turns out that acetone rejects lacquer.

It turns out that WMO will blend with petroleum distillates, WATF, and biodeisel without producing the precipitates of lacquer and free-carbon. And, it turns out that WVO will blend with petroleum distillates, WATF, and biodeisel without producing the precipitates of lacquer and free-carbon. However, blending WMO with WVO produces precipitates of lacquer and free-carbon in abundance.

OK, so where does the lacquer come from? My hypothesis is that heating oil to its oxidation point produces lacquer. WVO is generally changed about once a week in kitchens, and it tends to go through one heat cycle per day, so it produces some lacquer. However, WMO goes through a heat cycles every time the engine is started then shut down; and motor oil is not changed for months; therefore, WMO most probably has a great deal of lacquer dissolved into it along with soot, which is free-carbon.

So, why does blending WVO with WMO produce precipitates of lacquer and free-carbon? My hypothesis is WVO does not have the same capacity to absorb lacquer and free-carbon as does WMO; whereas WVO and WMO have a powerful attraction of absorption for each other. Thus, WVO forces lacquer and free carbon out of solution with WMO.

We can therefore use this phenomena to our advantage by blending WMO with WVO at 50% to force lacquer and free-carbon out of solution. I have successfully done this experiment, and my 50-50 blend of WVO with WMO with gasoline at 20-30% and acetone at 5% comes out dark amber allowing light transmission through it, and no further precipitation has been observed.

 

[theandyman]

interesting stuff. thanks for all your hard work, jeff.

i hope you'll do a video of this soon! i would love to see this dark amber product. have you tried this mixture using virgin veggie and brand new motor oil? i wonder if there would be any precipitate at all.

looks like i may have to secure some veggie sources.

the more precipitate we can force from our fuel, the longer our filters, injectors, and cylinder heads should last.

 

[Jeffrey S Brooks]

interesting stuff. thanks for all your hard work, jeff.

You are welcome.

i hope you'll do a video of this soon! i would love to see this dark amber product.

Yes, I am working on that

have you tried this mixture using virgin veggie and brand new motor oil? i wonder if there would be any precipitate at all.

Yes, I did. I videoed it, and it will be part of the second video on this subject. It turns out that new vegetable oil will blend with new motor oil without producing a precipitate.

looks like i may have to secure some veggie sources.

the more precipitate we can force from our fuel, the longer our filters, injectors, and cylinder heads should last.

I agree.

 

[jonrobinson01]

This is awesome research! The old mercedes I purchased for a commute had the two mixed and it has taken A lot of cleaning to get the ol gal back up to par. I have always wondered on this subject.

From what I was reading it seems like the final product will be cleaner than either of the two together???

After the mixture of the two and the gas plus acetone, what is the next process? Let settle, then heat and spin in a centrifuge or regular filters??

 

[Jeffrey S Brooks]

This is awesome research! The old mercedes I purchased for a commute had the two mixed and it has taken A lot of cleaning to get the ol gal back up to par. I have always wondered on this subject.

There are a fair number of dramatic failures in blending, and I believe most of them were caused by blending WMO with WVO.

From what I was reading it seems like the final product will be cleaner than either of the two together???

Yes, ending up with a cleaner fuel that can be blended with any diesel fuel is my goal, and I believe I may have achieved it.

After the mixture of the two and the gas plus acetone, what is the next process? Let settle, then heat and spin in a centrifuge or regular filters??

After the blending of the WMO with WVO, plus gasoline plus, acetone, then settle, filter, then optional centrifuging.

WARNING!! I would not heat the above blend, because it would be flammable, and there would be no reason to do so, because it should be thin enough with gasoline blended at 15-30% plus acetone at 5%

 

[Jeffrey S Brooks]

Here is another video on WVO and WMO fuel incompatibilities

 

[ajohansson]

this is precisely why single tank blending with WVO is BAD!!! Until your cylinder is at 160 degrees you are blowing by fuel into the crank case. So if your blending WVO you are sending WVO into your crankcase until motor is heated up. It will make that same goo in your crankcase if you do it long enough.

 

[Jeffrey S Brooks]

this is precisely why single tank blending with WVO is BAD!!! Until your cylinder is at 160 degrees you are blowing by fuel into the crank case. So if your blending WVO you are sending WVO into your crankcase until motor is heated up. It will make that same goo in your crankcase if you do it long enough.

So far I have not observed goo formation in my oil sump from burning WVO blends in my diesel engine for 10,000 miles and 5 years; however, I do not rule it out as a possibility for some engines. I just would not think that fuel migration into the oil sump is significant in a functional diesel engine.

The object of this thread is simply to show that WVO and WMO are incompatible and need to be kept separate, or blended together at 50%, then allowed to settle for three days before introducing that blend to a fuel tank that will be getting WMO and WVO.