The Diesel Stop banner

'89 7.3L IDI fuel pump / lift pump theorizing...

12K views 12 replies 3 participants last post by  oldrebuiltdodge  
#1 · (Edited)
Truck died on me tonight. Acted like it ran out of fuel. Put in 2 gallons, did all I could (The truck did something similar 2 weeks ago-acted like it ran out of fuel, though gauge was reading just under 1/4 tank and had always been pretty accurate. I was on a highway late at night, but read all advice on here and finally got it started: In that instance, I added 2 gallons, turned it over forever, nothing. I then cracked fuel injectors loose a bit, turned it over forever, until I got moisture "bubbling" out of the slightly loosened injectors, tightened fuel injectors back up, turned it over forever MORE. Right when I thought batteries were finally too low to keep going, it started.).

Nothing this time, though, even after I did ALL of the same stuff, AND even removed the glow plugs, to make things easier on the starter while trying to prime, and to make sure I was getting fuel up to the engine.

So, I had a small electric fuel pump with me. Thought I'd try to put it in line and see what I could do. When I took lines off of fuel pump, no fuel down there. Put lines back on, turned it over some more. Took lines loose again. No fuel there. Hooked up electric pump, hot wired directly to battery for test, fuel came through. Wondering about my fuel pump now. I Hooked the electric pump in line BEFORE the "inlet" port on the stock pump. Start electric fuel pump, fuel pumps right through the fuel pump and gets up to the filter.

So, I am thinking fuel pump (lift pump) bad.

Make sense? Something else I had noticed was that the rear tank was going "empty" on less fuel (more still showing on the gauge) than before, and was taking less to fill ) confirming what gauge was indicating. I thought maybe the pick up in the tank had broken off or split part way down and it couldn't "suck" up gas from the bottom of the tank anymore. However, after this experience/experiment tonight with the electric pump, I am thinking this was just a sign that the old lift pump was getting tired. Rear tank is farther away, and pump was getting weak and couldn't pull as much from the bottom of the tank and all the way forward. The front tank still seemed to be working fine.

Thoughts? Thanks for any help! It did TRY to fire 2x throughout that whole process once I had the electric pump pumping fuel up to the filter for sure. From what I could read on here, it only takes about 6 psi from lift pump, and from what I could see on-line at parts stores, most generic electric pumps pump more than that. This one is probably 5 years old and I just carry it with me for emergencies, so I didn't have the model number and stats on it, but thought it might help me get the thing started and maybe even limp it home. Didn't work! But like I said, there were 2 tiny individual times where the engine TRIED to fire, literally, like ONE cylinder tried to go, at 2 different times over the course of about 30 minutes of tinkering. I'm not sure if this was indicative of the electric pump being too weak and the fuel supply not good enough, or if this was simply when the batteries were getting too low to turn the engine fast enough. Regardless, one battery was charged overnight and I am going to hook up the other now and will get back to it.

Again, any thoughts greatly appreciated!
 
Discussion starter · #3 ·
Oh, GEEZ! Thanks! Had NOT thought about that!!! GOOD point and great warning/advice! THANKS!!!
 
Discussion starter · #4 · (Edited)
Update: After changing out the lift pump, I got the truck started with relative ease. However, I had only put about 2 gallons in each tank after it stopped running (less to lose/run out if a "gravity drain" were to occur, which I wasn't completely sure couldn't happen, along with the realization that there was a good chance my rear fuel pick-up snorkel may have fallen off/broken, and I may need to drop the tank in all this process). So, after getting it started, instead of letting it run for 15 or so minutes to "work the bubbles out," I ran it for about 3-4 minutes and killed it to go fill up my 2 gallon can and put more in. When I returned with more fuel and put it in the tank, it took about 15 seconds of cranking to get it to start again. This time, I immediately drove it around the block a couple of times, then to the a nearby station and filled both tanks, then kept it running for about an hour and a half doing different things, so it had a good chance to clear its system. I then shut it off for about 30 minutes, went out and it started well. Left it sitting again not long after for about 40 minutes, started up pretty well. Left it sitting for about 2, hours, and it played stubborn again-took a couple of times of prolonged cranking (10 or so seconds) before it caught. So, I am curious to see what it does today when I go out there. If it does the same but at least starts, I will be pleased that I've got a running truck (need to go pick up some appliances this weekend), but will be looking for the cause of the prolonged crank/delayed start issue. Hopefully, though, I at least have a running truck again (for now)!
 
Discussion starter · #5 ·
So, this morning's start up experience...

Get in, turn key on, glow plug light for MAYBE one second, then off. Try to start. Crank for about 10 seconds, stop cranking, no start. Turn key on again-possibly even quicker glow plug light (followed by the "clicking" thing the glow plug circuit sometimes does), so I turn the key on and off several times, each time it does the less than a second shut off of the glow plug light. After I did this about 5 times, I crank it for about 15 seconds. No start. I turn it back off, wait about 30 seconds and do this all again, and after about 7 seconds it fires up and runs great. Ambient temperature was about 67 degrees. Shopping for glow plug wires today and that will be next. Still doing research on other possible causes for prolonged crank, delayed start at this point.
 
Discussion starter · #9 · (Edited)
Think I may have figured part of the problem out-I just went out and tested the glow plugs using resistance from the tip where the wires connect for the positive lead and touching to the head that the glow plugs screw into for ground. My VM uses 20 as the lowest setting, for single digit reads, but I was getting good readings on all the plugs, even down to "0." on several. Is that right/possible? I know people have spoken of getting between 0.1-0.3, but couldn't remember if anyone had said there could be such good connection that you could get "0." Regardless, the glow plug wires are in HORRIBLE shape-to the point where several of the end caps have basically disintegrated/crumbled away either on their own or when I was removing the glow plugs to turn the engine and prime the fuel pump the other day. Well, one has crumbled away to the point that it has taken it's connector with it, and there is NO contact being made between the glow plug wire and the glow plug, Because these are "in series(?)" and "one bad plug can ruin the whole system," I am guessing that one plug not hooked up can as well. I have done a couple of searches for glow plug wires, and have gotten mixed results in terms of being able to buy them at the neighborhood parts store, so I am actually going out now to ask in person-I wouldn't think it would be a hard part to find. I am not sure if I can just buy the connectors and crimp one on there or not, but as I said, enough of them are bad that I will gladly splurge for a whole set if I can find them. I realize that now, since my fuel pump seems to be working okay, this thread is getting off subject. I will now start looking through all of the glow plug stuff if I have more questions. If anyone has a part number for the glow plug wires, the name of the connector on the end ("bullet?"), or any other general advice for me, I will certainly take it, but will try not to take this thread in other directions now! Again, thanks to everyone for the help. Always much appreciated!
 
Discussion starter · #12 ·
When hooking it up outside the engine, as you mention, OLDREBUILTDODGE, do you need to have a ground wire run as well? Or do you just stick it in the harness connector and leave the "glow" end sitting up somewhere and see if it heats up? Thanks!