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WMO How to thread

157K views 203 replies 63 participants last post by  conway.johnmichael  
#1 · (Edited)
First some acronyms

WMO: waste motor oil

WATF: waste transmission fluid

RUG: regular unleaded gasoline

D2: pump diesel

W85: approximately 85% WMO to 15% RUG blend. Some users add 15% RUG to the WMO
such as 40 gallons WMO and 6 gallons RUG which is actually 87/13 or others
calculate by dividing the WMO amount by 0.85 to determine how much RUG to add
such as 40/0.85=47 so they add 7 gallons RUG for a 85/15 batch

Some other definitions:

Whole house water filter: This is a 10" cartridge filter housing available at
most hardware stores.

String wound filter: these are typically 10" cartridges that fit the above
housing. They are available at commercial supply houses such as McMaster-Carr
or Grainger Industrial Supply or elsewhere online. String wound cartridges are
nominal rated meaning they don't get all particles above their rating out.
Typically when using these several passes are made or the oil is recirculated
through them.

Absolute rated filter: These filters get about 99.9 percent of particles larger
than their rating out. They are more costly and normally have a lower flow rate
so they are normally used at the end of the process

Upflow processor: A 55 gallon drum set up to separate water and heavy
particulate from the WMO. Most include a drain valve in the bottom, typically a
pipe welded into the bottom side of the drum with a valve. The top of the drum
is sealed. The small bung has an 3/4" NPT elbow installed, then a ball valve and
a filter housing typically containing a 20 micron string wound filter. The
output of the filter has a hose barb and normally a 3/8" hose. This would lead
to a mixing drum. The larger bung has a 2" close pipe nipple. Inside this nipple
a length of 2" exhaust pipe is welded that extends down to about 6-8" from the
bottom of the drum when the nipple is threaded in. Next the top third of a
closed head drum is cut off and flipped over then threaded onto the 2" pipe
nipple forming a sort of funnel. This will hold about 20 gallons of oil. Here is
how the process works: First the barrel needs to be completely filled through
the funnel and all the air let out through the 3/4" ball valve then it should
sit at least 1-2 weeks. To operate the system fill the funnel with 20 gallons of
oil. Open the valve slightly until a very light drizzle of oil comes out of the
3/8" hose. Ideally it will take about a day and a half for all the oil to empty
out of the funnel. The flow slows down as the funnel empties. Since I make 40 +
7 gallon batches I continue adding my other 20 gallons of WMO as the funnel
empties. Once all the oil has emptied from the funnel into the drum and forced
clean dry oil out through the filter you may close the valve until the next time
you need to process oil. Periodically you should open the bottom drain and draw
off any water and sludge that is present, failure to do this will eventually
result in a barrel full of water and sludge.

Mixing barrel: There are several ways to do this. If you can weld I have found
the nicest setup to be a 3/4" pipe welded into the bottom side of the barrel
about 1/2" up from the bottom. Put a 3/4" ball valve on the pipe then a few
elbows and a 12-15" length of pipe to bring the pipe high enough to screw on a
filter housing. I have two filter housings in series each with a 5 micron string
wound filter. After the filters I attach my mixing pump. Mine is a gear pump
that is geared down to do about 3 gallons per minute (gpm) which is the max
rating of my string wound filters. If your pump will not pull through the
filters then you may try pushing instead, just be careful not to create too much
pressure especially if your pump is large. You want to either filter in a vacuum
(pulling) or under very little pressure so the filters catch as much particulate
as possible. Too much pressure will force particulate past the filters. The
output of my pump has a tee fitting with a valve on each side. One side goes
back into the mix barrel. The idea is to recirculate and mix the oil. My method
is to add my RUG to the barrel first then let my upflow drizzle in 40 gallons
over a couple of days. Once this is complete I stir with a wooden paddle then
turn on my pump for about 3 hours. In three hours roughly 180 gallons of mix has
gone through my filters. After recirculating I close the valve that goes back
into the drum and open the valve on the other side of the tee fitting. This
leads to a 5 micron absolute rated cartridge. I pump through this either into
storage or into my truck.

drmiller100 has a different "low buck" method that I will do my best to describe
here: He uses just a mixing drum, adds his WMO and RUG and mixes it up then lets
it settle for a day to two. He then uses a pump to pull the crud and water off
the bottom of his mix barrel. Next using a small diaphragm pump he recirculates
through two 5 micron cartridges and then through a spin on absolute rated fuel
filter and into his truck or storage.

I don't think either system is better than the other as both drmiller100 and
myself have had good luck with our respective systems. I will only say that with
the pre-settling and upflow processor I have never had an issue with water in my
fuel. My recommendation to novices using drmiller100's setup would be to add a
water block or water separator filter inline as a precaution.

Another method is to use a centrifuge such as a Dieselcraft. I won't get into
the details here but suffice it to say that centrifuging is essentially forced
settling using the g-force created by the spinning centrifuge bowl. I prefer the
cheap and easy method of just regular settling and filtering.
Here are some ideas I've found helpful. I like to pre-settle my oil for at least
a month before processing. What I did originally was weld some 3/4" pipes into
the bottom sides of 3 55 gallon closed top barrels. I put my collected oil in
these barrels and date them with marker on masking tape. Since my processing has
grown I now use a 275 gallon fuel oil tank for storage and pre-settling. I
always draw off the top of the settling barrels. On my tank I put a tap at the
54 gallon mark and draw from there. From time to time open the bottom valves on
the barrels to drain off any water and sludge you may find. I have found that
letting the oil settle this long really gets a lot of the junk out prior to
upflow processing and filtering. Another thing some of us have found is that
after mixing the RUG and WMO together if we let the mix sit for a day or two the
RUG causes more sludge to drop out of suspension. That is one of the reasons I
start with RUG in my mix barrel and then let the upflow slowly fill it. It is
also important to carry spare fuel filters, the tools to change them, and about
a quart of fuel with you, especially at first. We believe that something in the
oil cleans the inside of the tanks and fuel systems because normally when first
starting out you will plug 1-3 filters in the first 500 miles or less. Once the
crud is out of the tanks the onboard filters seem to last a rather long time but
it is still good practice to carry a spare filter and some fuel to fill it.

Many of us are running the W85 blend but consider this a starting point. A lot
depends upon the oil you collect, thicker oil will require more RUG to thin it
out while thin oils like WATF require less, sometimes as little as 10% RUG. I
have found that my W85 starts and runs well down to about 10F, below that I have
added about 10% D2 to thin it a little more but next winter I'll likely just add
5% RUG instead since I did try that successfully in the past few weeks.

I feel I must strongly urge anyone interested in getting into any alternative
fuel to get to know their vehicle on D2 for at least a month or two before
experimenting with alternative fuels. Also make sure everything is in working
order. There are several reasons for this. Mainly the naysayers will almost
always blame your fuel choice if your vehicle breaks down. The second big reason
is you want to know how your vehicle should start cold and drive on D2 so that
you can properly adjust your fuel. Properly blended WMO is indistinquishble from
D2 other than slightly quieter running (less diesel knock). Another
recommendation is to install a dash mounted pressure gauge after the fuel
filter. On amy IDI I just used a 15psi boost gauge and some nylon gauge tubing.
This lets me closely monitor my filter condition as well as how well my blend is
flowing at low temps so I can adjust accordingly. I find the first sign that the
filter is clogging is if the pressure drops a little during hard acceleration,
like 1-2 psi on the IDI. My truck drops 1/2 psi under hard acceleration with a
fresh filter regardless of fuel or temperature so that is my baseline. If you
are running an engine equipped with a Stanadyne DB2 injection pump DO NOT let
the pressure drop below 4psi, this will eventually kill the transfer pump
section of the pump because it will cause it to cavitate. This is why I highly
recommend the pressure gauge for the IDI trucks.

Well there it is, just about everything I know about running WMO in my vehicle
as well as what I have learned from others. Hopefully some of the other forum
members will chime in with some stuff I may have missed.
 
Discussion starter · #2 · (Edited)
Some useful facts

more....

BTU Values in BTU per gallon:

No. 2 fuel oil (diesel): 138,500 Btu's per gallon. Flash Point 143F and
Autoignition at 410F.
No. 6 fuel oil (used motor oil): 153,000 Btu's per gallon. Flash Point 400-500F
Autoignition 500-700F
Biodiesel – Waste vegetable oil 120,000 Btu/gal. Flash Point 300F. Autoignition
?
Gasoline 125,000 Btu/gal. Flash Point -45F. Autoignition at 495F.
Hydraulic Oil ?Btu/gal. Flash Point 414F Autoignition 650F
Transformer Oil ?Btu/gal. Flash Point 300F. Autoignition 482F.

Environmental impact: While this will likely always be up for debate the "Green
perspective" per a member of the Green Party who posts here (drcampbell) is that
running WMO in a diesel engine is about the same as running diesel. My take on
that is they both pollute roughly the same. Furthermore very little WMO is
re-refined into usable motor oil, approximately 14%. The bulk of used oil is
burned in some fashion either for heat or for power generation. Bunker fuel used
to power large diesel engines such as ocean going vessels often contains used
motor oil. Depending upon viscosity and purity used WMO can be classified as
#4-#6 fuel oil. However one must consider the energy required to recycle oil,
even into plain oil bunker oil. First it has to be drained and collected then
driven to a collection center (using fuel to get there) from there is must be
processed and again transported to the location it will be ultimately used.
There may even be some transportation in between. All the while burning diesel
or gasoline to transport it and using electricity to process it. My guess is
that it's likely less of an impact to run it in your personal truck that have it
converted to bunker fuels.

Finally I have had to hear people tell me over and over again that WMO or WVO
will ruin my engine, coke the rings, fry the injectors etc. From my perspective
this simply is not true. I recently had a head gasket let go on my 6.9 engine. I
happened to have the 7.3 engine from my old van sitting on a pallet and figured
if I was going to do a gasket job I might as well do the entire engine and
install the 7.3 due to it's larger head bolts which work better with my
aftermarket turbo. At the time the engine had at least 30k miles running waste
oils. I ran WVO blends in the summer and WMO/D2 blend in the winter. Upon tear
down I was SHOCKED at how little carbon there was inside the cylinders, how
clean the valves were etc. The injectors were replaced before I bought the van
so I have no idea how many miles are on them. The IP was also worn when I got
it. After a junkyard pump failed on D2 I put in an ebay rebuild which also
failed in short order. I then installed a quality rebuild www.mwfi.com and have put about 35k miles in total on that pump
running waste oils 90% of the time. If I had to guess total miles on WMO blends
I would figure about 20k miles in total as I ran about 5-6 months of the year on
50/50 WMO/D2 prior to switching to just W85. The truck starts in cold weather
and runs great with plenty of power and almost zero smoke except at cold start
up and heavy acceleration (IP turned up). The amount of smoke appears to be the
same whether I'm running D2 or W85. Since I have now saved more than enough
money to REBUILD the entire engine I'm not gonna even bother listening to people
who swear I will ruin my engine. If on the odd chance it does wear out I'll just
rebuild it or buy a junkyard engine with the money I have saved. By my
estimation I have saved close to $6000 running waste oils in this engine alone.
That is including paying for my waste oil, cost of filters and my setup, the
thinning agent (D2 or RUG), and little things like disposable gloves and paper
towels for cleanup.
 
Discussion starter · #5 ·
EXCELLENT post, certain to get better & better. by way of clarity, please list differences, pros & cons about the different breeds of waste oil, if possible. Back to reading...
THX!:thumbsup:
Perhaps drmiller can comment on that. I don't have enough experience with oils other than WMO and some WATF, usually mixed in with the WMO. I can say that most hydraulic oil and cutting fluid I have seen is definitely thinner than motor oil. I'll have some experience soon though, just scored 325 gallons of hydraulic oil and cutting fluid. My major pickup just got a second building that used to be a machine shop and the oil was left behind so I got it from them.

One more tip: If you can offer to pay for your oil if you think you've found a steady reliable source. This keeps the recycling companies away. I will typically pay about 10% the current pump price for diesel. I did this with my WVO sources after losing a few when diesel hit $4.50/gallon, once I started paying the collection companies couldn't get in the door. I still have one of those sources and I sell the oil on craigslist when I pick it up about every 4-5 months. I have no trouble selling dewatered 10 micron filtered oil in clean drums for $1.00/gallon, mainly because it's super clean and thin Chinese Restaurant oil.
 
Discussion starter · #11 ·
As for settling once the RUG is added I've worked a way around that with the upflow system. First my upflow oil is at least 2 months old settling time then it goes into the upflow. Second I add my RUG to the mix tank first then start the upflow drizzling into it. It takes about 3 days at the rate I prefer to get 40 gallons of oil into the mix drum, I mix it gently each morning before work and let it settle again overnight. Of course I'm actually trying to catch this sediment with my filters and so far it's working pretty well. I have noticed that the longer my "raw" oil has settled the less "slime" I get in my mix. I had some oil that I processed recently that was 6 months old, I got hardly any slime on that batch.

Here's another tip for those with more modern engines or the time an patience to do it. Try water washing the oil. Basically just mist several gallons of water over the top of your oil and let it settle for awhile. The theory is that the tiny mist droplets with wash any water soluble contaminate down to the bottom of the barrel where it can be drained off easily. This is not part of my process but I have run into several guys on other forums who water wash their WVO so it stands to reason that is could work for WMO as well.
 
Discussion starter · #12 ·
Calculated values for W85

BTU/gallon: 148800
Autoignition Temp (avg): 584F
Flash Point: 376F
 
Discussion starter · #25 ·
Thumbs up to being a sticky! rsr, is your mixing barrel open topped?

Yes, I leave the lid on loose so I can stir it as well as look inside. A closed top is fine though, just harder to stir.
 
Discussion starter · #39 ·
I have the following question based on your sketch:

The wmo flows from the upflow tank to the mix tank solely by gravity flow (becuase the funnel tank is higher than the mix tank inlet)...correct?

What step do you add the RUG in (into which tank)?

Correct the oil drizzles slowly from the top of the upflow tank into the mix barrel. I put my RUG in the mix barrel first then let the oil flow in. Many of us believe that once WMO and RUG mix that some slime and sediment falls out of suspension so really the longer the WMO/RUG sit the better. I'm impatient though on that end as my oil has already settled for months anyway so I put the RUG in, let the oil fill up the barrel which takes about 3 days at the rate I have mine set. I stir it every morning on the way out to work. On the third day he rose again to judge the living (oops wrong story) On the third day I go ahead and start my recirc filtration through the 2 5 micron filters then after 2-3 hours I go through the 5 micron absolute into storage.
 
Discussion starter · #42 ·
I get even less slime than that which I think is due to my long pre-settling period. What I get mostly is very fine particulate dropping out of the oil and I just use the filters to catch it.

I can't say I've seen air used to mix a blend before but I have read about some WVO guys using fish tank bubblers to "dewater" their oil. They claim the introduction of air bubbles drys out the oil. I'm skeptical though, particularly of high humidity days. In theory the bubbler method could also hydrate the oil I think.
 
Discussion starter · #49 ·
Here some pictures of my transfer pump and my collection pump. They are both the same Teel gear pumps that I rebuilt from work. They run about $250 new just for the pump. The transfer pump uses a cheap drill press motor at 1/2hp and the collection pump has a 1/2hp DC motor I got at HF awhile back. The collection pump need painted still but I made the frame from 2x2 box tubing so the whole thing slides in my reciever hitch.

These pumps work fantastic, depending on the temp and WMO they pump 3-7gpm. The trouble is the price. Both Mcmaster and Grainger carry them, just look for the gear pumps with 1/2" npt inlet and outlet. I still need to get better suction houses from them. I'm looking at the type of hose they use to vacuum pools right now. The heater hose I had laying around works but it softens over time and collapses a little from the suction.
 

Attachments

Discussion starter · #51 ·
My transfer pump I use mainly in the garage to move oil around so it's plugged into AC power. The collection pump has a DC motor, I use a DC two conductor plug for it that is wired up to the battery. I have a reversing switch so I can empty drums into my garage storage. Future plans involve a switch on the collection wand to turn the pump on and off rather than run back and forth between the truck and collection barrel. I used heavy extension cord as wire to run from the back bumper up to the battery. I've got a switch on my cold idle solenoid. I pull up, hit the switch to idle up the truck, put my hose in the barrel and turn the pump on. I use 1/2 pipe with a cap on the end and some 3/8" holes drilled through the sides near the cap, this way I can set the wand all the way to the bottom and not suck the crud into the pump. I've been toying with putting a 150 micron filter before the pump to protect it some as well as prefilter the WMO a bit.
 
Discussion starter · #58 ·
Here are some pics of my pump. Got the fittings screwed in and JB Welded, the original outlet blocked, and the bypass is bypassed with a JB Weld plug. Got the motor for $10. Im going to run a belt to the pump from the motor when I get around to it so that I can drop the pump into the drum and leave the motor outside. That will solve the leaking problem because the pump will just leak right back into the oil.

One question: The motor is 3450 RPM, what do you think the pump can handle? I need to know so I can work out what size pulley to get.
SBC oil pumps are camshaft driven. Stock redline is about 6000rpm so half that for the pump. However lots of built up SBC's go alot higher than 6000 RPM. However if these things are doing about 5-7 gpm at 1700 rpm then I'd run a 2:1 pulley reduction. I think you'll find the limit for pumping is the pipe size and not the pump itself. I'd recommend going to 3/4-1" hose for the vac side and at least 5/8" for the pressure side. On my Teel I run 3/4" which is not big enough so I'm looking for some 1" pool vacuum hose.
 
Discussion starter · #64 ·
Let us know also how you like the parallel filters. I need faster filtration on mine and cannot decide whether to go with parallel or 20" housings. It would be much cheaper for me to just add some more 10" filters rather than replace what I have.
 
Discussion starter · #73 ·
I think if you look at my replies in some of the WVO and Bio threads I think you will find I have been helpful where I can. However while I support WVO and WVO blending I always caution those making bio to be aware of the costs and dangers. Bottom line blending of either WMO or WVO is less expensive and easier to do than make biodiesel on top of being safer. Just look up the flashpoint of methanol vs. gasoline and figure that W85 requires about the same percentage of gasoline as bio requires of methanol, only you don't have to HEAT the gasoline.
 
Discussion starter · #82 ·
I evaporate the water by boiling and put the other gunk back in one of my collection location's tank. They are friends who are a backup collection point for me, they have a company that buys their oil so I can only pick up a little at a time. You can do the same but take the sludge to a recycling center, even Azone for that matter.
 
Discussion starter · #91 ·
3-4 angstrom molecular sieves will also scavenge emulsified water. As will enough RUG mixed in and left to settle for a week or more. I think the RUG weakens the surfactant bonds.
 
Discussion starter · #98 ·
RDG and I have had a rather open conversation about some of the issues down here in the alt. fuels section. From this point forward if there is a problem let me know via PM and I will pass it on to the mods. Now let's not dirty up this thread with a bunch of "thank you posts" I think I speak for all of the W85 and WMO users when I say "big thanks from all of us".

Also any personal attacks, click on the "notify a moderator button", I have been assured that it will be handled. TDS moderators are not assigned specific sections and thus cannot possibly read every post/thread so we need to "call the police" from time to time in order to help them do their job.

Back to the topic at hand. I have found through some research a few better ways of doing things. Expect me to edit my original posts in the next few days to reflect the improvements and knowledge I have gained just in the past few months.
 
Discussion starter · #107 ·
This forum thread is pretty good; however, it unnecessarily promotes Doug Miller, who has been banned from numerous alternative fuels forums for abusive behavior. He basically flames anyone who disagrees with him. Since April RSR911 and he started their own alternative fuels forum, then Doug Miller took orders for his overly elaborate filter assembly, and has yet to deliver a single product. Since then RSR911 has not been around much. I think it is due to guilt by association. I do not believe that RSR911 is at fault. He just got duped like some of us (but not me). I would like to see him back on here, because his contributions were good and he didn't steal anyone's money.
I have not been around due to personal reasons not because of drmiller100. my fiancee and I had been together 4.5 years, we have a total of 5 kids between us and we separated in early July. We only recently have decided to work things out but it's been hard for both of us. I have dropped all ties to Doug Miller since I learned of his scam.

Anyway I expect to be back around but not as much as before. I need to spend more time with her and less time tinkering and doing side jobs.
 
Discussion starter · #131 ·
I'm back!

Still running WMO blends. Haven't been active due to aforementioned family issues. My truck is still running great and has been converted from 2wd SRW to 4wd DRW. ;-)
 
Discussion starter · #149 ·
It's been a long time since I've been on the boards, real life really got in the way lol.

Anyway as for an update on my experiences.

The original upflow system I was using does not seem to work as well at removing water from WMO as it does for WVO. I've been able to determine with the help of a chemist that this is due to emulsifying agents (surfactants) put in oil to keep "raw" water away from engine bearings. The idea being that the oil emusifies the water and it is taken out with the next oil change. The same seems to be true for some of the sludge/dirt but I've found that blending in 10% RUG or other thinner seems to reduce the effectiveness of the emulsifiers and the upflow works better. The BEST way to remove water I've found is to boil the oil a barrel at a time with a 1000w drum heater from mcmaster-carr. To quicken the process I wrap the drum with insulation and leave the lid on loose for the first hour. Using this method I've taken milky oil to straight black in a matter of hours, time dependent on the amount of water. I'm investigating some sort of solar evaporator as well.

As for pumps, i've had over the years two injection pumps fail. Upon inspection at my rebuilder both failed on the low pressure side. I've also had some trouble with the return line O-rings on my truck. I suspect it's the ethanol present in almost all gasoline these days. However the current pump in my truck has about 30-35k miles on it with no issue. I have a spare pump that I want to look into having built to be ethanol friendly. I replaced the return O-rings with EPDM again from mcmaster and they are now holding up just fine. My thinking is what I've experienced is the very same thing I experienced with a classic Porsche, you need to replace seals that are sensitive to alcohols with alcohol friendly seals. In most cases the o-rings and hoses etc are pretty standard.

Having said all that I've run so much low cost fuel thru my truck that I just amortize in these extra maintenance costs. IE if a $600 IP rebuild goes bad in 20k miles whats the big deal really? I mean in that many miles I've saved over $5k in fuel. (I estimate my fuel cost at $0.70 and D2 goes for about $4 where I live, my 4wd dually with no OD gets 12mpg). One had to look at total costs, not just line items. Kinda of like knowing your trans will wear out sooner if you're constantly towing or plowing. If/when I do have a solution too the low pressure side IP issue I've experienced I'll be sure to post it. As for the O-rings I've long forgotten the dimensions or part number but you need 16 and they are all the same. When I did mind I got the return kit, measured the rings, and ordered the same size in EPDM from mcmaster. FWIW the last pump I had rebuilt the rebuilder said the pump was in good condition overall, no serious scarring or wear that some of us feared in the early stages. Basically my low pressure input pump (it's a rotary vane style on the back side of the IP) couldn't build enough pressure for the IP to work correctly. That's had me thinking about custom building a pump without one and running an electronic injection pump in place of my lift pump, just a thought though....
 
Discussion starter · #154 ·
rsr911, or others who've been running WMO for a long time:

I completely understand your rationale that the IP failures are no big deal considering fuel cost savings, but if you had a reliable source of WVO do you think you would go that route instead? Or do you think your IP failures would have happened with either? Based on what I've read so far I'm leaning towards WVO if I can lock down a source, or WMO if I can't (which looks to be a pretty common standpoint). Please let me know if you think I should only consider WMO (and if so why).

Another Q: I was thinking of going with a Frybrid kit for WVO. I'm new to this but it sounds like the heater would be unnecessary. Do you know if there are any other aspects of the kit that wouldn't be needed (or detrimental) if I ran WMO instead? Is one of the advantages to WMO less start-up component cost?

Last Q: considering I currently have an old gas truck that's running fine, how many miles do you think a person has to put on a truck before it'd be worth it to make the switch, considering truck cost, kit cost, filtering setup costs and time involved? With the diesels I'm looking at, after selling my current truck I figure my cost for a diesel will be ~$5k and it looks like the kit costs for the diesels I'm looking at will be maybe $2k total. I have no idea how much a filtering setup will set me back.

Thanks in advance, and others please don't hesitate to weigh in if you've got lots of experience with WMO/WVO.
My first IP failure was a broken shaft from a cold WVO blend, not WMO. I ran quite a bit of WVO before switching to WMO and I can honestly say if I had it to do all over again I would have started with WMO and never looked back. There's just too many issues with WVO and it's blends. Normally a lot more water content. It is a source of mold growth in my garage, it's often badly spoiled, much more "junk" to filter and/or settle out, almost impossible to run in winter, less power and it has it's own set of issues with seals and especially any brass or copper parts in the system. Aside from all that it's getting harder to find while WMO is rather easy to get. Heck all of my neighbors just leave jugs in front of my garage anymore. I'm also a big fan of free or cheap home heating oil when I can find it. I've run about 800 gallons of that stuff and it's just like diesel. If I could get ethanol free gasoline I'd likely have no issues at all. Lately I've been looking at recycled naptha as a potential replacement for the RUG. Or even water extraction of the ethanol from RUG. Works in the lab as far as I can tell but I really have no way to test other than to just assume I got the ethanol out.