Welcome to the forum and hold on. Unfortunately this is happening more and more. Some trucks have valve guide to stem clearances that are a little tighter than others.
During regen the the injectors fire on the exhaust stroke to generate more heat. This causes thermal expansion. Exhaust gasses escape vent up thru exhaust valve guides anytime back pressure rises above atmospheric pressure, this is normal. If the guides are tight the normal minor film on stem does not leave enough room for thermal expansion that occurs with the 6.7 during regeneration with Ford's engine injectors being used to generate heat. The valve momentary sticks in guide directly above piston that smacks it out of its momentarily static state.
Ford initially thought the truck's problem was a pcm programming issue, it was not.
Ford then started a campaign of having the cab pulled, then left head. The exhaust valves were to be removed and the stems cleaned off with a wire wheel on a bench grinder, nothing else, just clean and reassemble.
Trucks would stay out till a normal amount of film would return on bottom of stem.
So, this practice was aborted.
Then they say they are working on a new flash hopefully in the second quarter of Next Year.
All the while this has been going on Ford has been handing people documents that state," Engineering is aware of the problem and are working on a fix".
Three weeks ago a bulletin was released saying.," hand customer this form stating this condition as normal".
Ford is aware of the condition and how to correctly fix the condition but it's being bounced between department trying to arrive at something they can live with.
A few guy's dealers have tried new head with success as of date.
Just research threads here like," Blown Motor $25k", " Valve jack hammering running rough during regen". There are a few threads on it. Private message Warrell, a member here. He has a whole big group of 6.7 owners around the country having this happen.
I can tell you now unless you can get a dealer to ream these guides or get lucking with a new head that has slightly looser guides, it will continue to happen.
Ford's latest slimy slow roll is an attempt to keep the trucks from being logged in with a work order that starts the Lemmon Law clock. Insult to injury, right? Absolutely.
Contact Warrel, it's a group working together for, number one, strength but ,,,, well that's my advise there.
It won't be pretty and I am very sorry for what Ford is doing.

 

Thanks for the response. I take some solace in knowing that I am not alone in this, not that it makes things any better. I have reached out to Ford for what good it will do and will also reach out to Warrel as you have suggested.

 

Sounds good, there is a little support there for you.

 

I asked both dealerships where I live if they had ever had a truck come in for this issue. Both said no. Neither had even heard of the TSB.
I wonder if this is a fuel quality issue? I live in Canada and I know the fuel specs are very different.

 

Crumby fuel will aggregate it, yes. The ones that will do this will do it with pristinely clean quality fuel with additives that have the cetane rate good as well as lubricity.

 

I'm sorry to see this as I was hoping that by using Archoil fuel and oil additives plus Opti-Lube would prevent the problem. As is, I am at almost 21K with regens every 400-600 miles and no problem.

 

I have a 2015 6.7 diesel. It goes through the exhaust filter cleaning about every 200 miles. After this process starts the engine runs extremely rough, like it's ready to drop out...

Welcome to the forum, TLO! I'm the Ford Service rep on this site; I'd like to do what I can to help. Reach out to me via private message (PM), and I'll escalate the engine concerns to your regional customer service manager. When writing, please include your full name, best daytime phone number, VIN, current mileage, and preferred servicing dealership.

Crystal

 

Thank you Crystal. I have submitted to Ford Customer Service just this weekend. Below is the exchange that they also had with the dealer. I will send a private message with info needed.

---------

Description of Vehicle Concern:
CUSTOMER STATES WHEN IN REGEN, RUNS ROUGH AND ENGINE MAKES KNOCKING NOISE.


Please list any diagnostics already performed:
RAN KOEO, NO CODES. ROAD TESTED WHILE PERFORMING DYNAMIC MANUAL REGEN. VERIFIED
RUNS ROUGH, AND ENGINE MAKES A RATTLING/FUEL KNOCK. DOES NOT RUN ROUGH ENTIRE
REGEN, AND NOISE STARTED APPROXIMATELY 15 SECONDS AFTER STARTED RUNNING ROUGH.
RAN ROUGH FOR APPROXIMATELY 45 SECONDS TO 1 MINUTE.


Parts Replaced:
NONE


Your Question:
FOUND TSB 15-0106. TSB DOES NOT MAKE ANY MENTION OF VEHICLE MAKING ABNORMAL
NOISES, WILL THIS OCCUR IF CUSTOMER IS DRIVING IN CONDITIONS DESCRIBED? CUSTOMER
DID NOT INDICATE THEY WERE DRIVING AS TSB DESCRIBES.



Comment From: Ford Comment Date: Jul 14 2015 13:18:48
****,

The 6.7L Diesel engine uses fuel in order to perform the regeneration process,
in turn this heats up the exhaust and allows regeneration to occur and clean out
the exhaust. Ensure all fluids and systems are operating correctly on the
vehicle. You are correct in referencing TSB 15-0106 for this concern. Although
the TSB does not specifically call out noise as a concern but it is possible for
a noise to accompany the condition. This is due to the fueling and exhaust
strategy for cleaning. It is recommended to print out a copy of the TSB to give
to the customer, explain to them how the system is designed to operate.

If there is still a concern after acknowledging the TSB and a drivability issue
is suspected to be happening then PC/ED Section 3 can be referenced for
diagnosis by symptom. The No DTC Index can be accessed and the appropriate
symptom for the vehicle to continue diagnostics.

Comment From: DEALER
WHILE PERFORMING SYMPTOM CHART 6 IN PCED FOUND THAT MAF WILL CAUSE VEHICLE TO
RUN ROUGH. VEHICLE HAS K AND N AIR FILTER INSTALLED IN STOCK AIR BOX. WILL THIS
CAUSE ISSUE? I HAVE HEARD OF IT CAUSING REGEN FREQUENCY AND COMPLETION ISSUES,
HOWEVER NOT CAUSING RUNNING ISSUES. THANK YOU.

Comment From: Ford
****,

Any aftermarket intake components on a 6.7L engine have the potential of causing
drivability issues related to rough run, lack of power and idle concerns. An
aftermarket air filter can change the amount of air flow across the MAF sensor
and is recommended to install a factory Ford air filter and re-evaluate the
concern. If the concern is still present it is recommended to refer back to
Section 3 to continue diagnosis.

 

Thank you Crystal. I have submitted to Ford Customer Service just this weekend. Below is the exchange that they also had with the dealer. I will send a private message with info needed...

Hi TLO,

I received your PM and responded. I'll get to work on some ways to assist. :thumbsup:

Crystal

 

What type of air filter are you using? Oem or aftermarket? In my idea it could be 2 things. 1. is the fuel your are using and another due to suffocation due to air filter or carbon deposits in the combustion chamber.

 

My 2015 I got rid of with 18k on the clock was stock. It was my 8th superduty, my second 6.7, and it was hammering so bad at the end It was dangerous merging if the situation lined up right. It is sitting on my dealers used lot still, I thought they would fix it before they put it up foe sale, it is warranted and they know the issue. They were ready to tear it down, but I decided to trade it back to them. When you get this issue there is no second guessing, it is bad.I feel like crap if they don't fix it.

 

As expected, the response from Ford customer service. All normal, although the dealer has never seen this before nor do they know what is causing it, but "normal." I hate to say it, but after 5 Fords, it's time to sell and get a Chevy or Dodge. Ford customer service reply is below. They cannot move beyond what their computer is telling them and use common sense based on what they are observing to be wrong. The dealer even stated they have not seen this before.... Ahhh.

"Hello,

My name is (name removed), I am from Ford`s Customer Relationship Center (CRC). I have reviewed your email regarding the concerns on your 2015 Ford F-250. I apologize for any inconvenience this has caused.

To assist you, I contacted Robert Horne Ford, Inc. and spoke with Service Advisor (name removed). According to your Dealership’s assessment your vehicle is operating within Ford specifications. Your local Ford/Lincoln dealership has factory-trained technicians, the most current engineering service information, and the specialized equipment required to resolve your vehicle concerns. We concur with the Dealership assessment. If you require further explanation or the condition changes, please speak with Service Manager (name removed).

Thank you for contacting Ford Motor Company.

Sincerely,

(name removed)
Customer Relationship Center
Ford Motor Company

 

handshaker - It's a simple K&N filter replacement for the OEM filter. Not the whole filter charger kit. I have ordered a stock OEM filter to put back in there but the dealer tried this with the same result as part of their test.

 

K&N lets in far to much particulate for me to ever use them again. I used to use these in my off road trucks but the amount of dirt they let through was staggering.
They hang in my garage now.
I guess if you are never in the dust they may be ok.

 

And the EPA wonders why people remove all this crap from their trucks.

 

Other makers can get their trucks through regen without the commotion. Of course one of them decided it was worth the $ to add the 9th fuel dosing injector downstream in exhaust to avoid the raw fuel issues. OH!, by the way, Ford does that with the 3.2L 5 cylinder in the Transits.

 

Our numbers are growing. I got my last one while merging on the freeway at 70, that was fun. I've gone three cycles without one though, two in a row while towing about 4k.

 

Bummer about you installing the K&N filter, because Ford will use that to deny you any part of the class action suit that is surely coming. That filter has nothing to do with this violent shaking during regeneration. Most of the complaints for this issue are coming from people like me, with bone stock trucks.

Just know that Ford has no idea how to fix this issue. So get used to driving a shake weight down the road while getting a never ending run-around by your Ford service manager! That seems to be what everyone else is experiencing.

 

Thanks Highjumper - Misery loves company. I did put the stock filter back on for that very reason. Although, the dealer checked it with a stock filter and still had the same issue as you have indicated. It is time to sell for something other than a Ford which is a shame. I've had a number of them in the past without issue, but I will not do that again. It's one thing to have the issue and they stand behind the product, I would be satisfied with that. I received another response from Ford that they stand behind their decision to provide zero support for this as the computer sees nothing wrong. Forget about the mechanic and service advisor who do acknowledge that it's not normal. Support your product and your customers, that's all I'm asking.

 

I couldn't agree more. If Ford would own up and admit that this is actually a problem that needs to be fixed and agree to make it right when they have a solution, then I would be satisfied and willing to work this out. In the meantime, I will see if my service manager can get the check engine light to turn off and look to trade for a new Cummins.

Anyone ... ANYONE ... that has driven one of these when they start to shake can tell you that it is not normal and is unacceptable.

 

File Your F-250 Cleaning Exhaust Filter Complaint

All, if you are having rough engine and loud noise when going through the exhaust cleaning process, then I would encourage you to file a complaint at https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/index.xhtml

There is strength in numbers and it only takes a few minutes. This will ensure the public is aware of what is going on in a forum that is utilized and viewed by millions.

 

I have posed to the other "runs rough" thread here but to those who haven't followed..... my situation is this, My 15 started acting up a 3000 miles......expressed concern to the dealership...was told by service writer to bring the truck in while this is occurring..............ok genius, anyway I was able to capture the event on video with my phone on three occasions(back roads....no traffic......I do not recommend trying to video at high speed with lots of traffic). Armed with video I went back to dealer,talked to the shop manager and diesel tech showed them the video and without physically looking at my truck put in a repair ticket and ordered a new complete head(left side) with all misc.parts as well. I mentioned to the service manager that they were one of very few dealerships to go this far to attempt a fix as a large group are getting the run around. He mentioned we want your truck to operate the way it should and your vehicle is "unacceptable" in this condition. It has been mentioned that they may be back charged for an unauthorized repair and that may very well be so but my point is if you can capture on video the violence that occurs during the regen cycle I believe it would be very hard for a service manager to give you a lame run around associated a verbal description. My cab comes off tomorrow on a truck I have made 3 payments on but for now I'm not losing sleep over it because my shop is making an acceptable effort to fix it. If I'm back in there for this again it will be a different story. If your shop won't work with you on this then find another shop. This is a huge inconvenience for all of us having the issue ,but it will be multiplied exponentially if there is a fatality due to this. Look at GM and the overloaded keyring in the ignition litigation. Wait till your pulling your camper ,or horses or backhoe and this happens merging into traffic and an accident occurs. Accepting a lame explanation for a very serious problem is unacceptable. GET THE PROOF ON VIDEO!!!!

 

I am having the same problem with my 2015 with 21000 miles. At 20k my truck started to do this with a trailer on it while only going up hill in regen mode. Now the truck will shudder And shake like the motor is coming apart on flat ground without a trailer. My initial call to the dealer was that it is normal that all the new trucks do this with a trailer under regen mode. My question is how much damage is this doing to my motor. This truck is less than a year old and I am very concerned. This is my only truck and I depend on it to run my business daily. My first 6.7 was a 2011 that I bought used and it spent more time in the shop than it did on the road. I have been a life long Ford owner but this may be my last. I am hoping the dealer makes it right.

 

I am having the same problem with my 2015 with 21000 miles. At 20k my truck started to do this with a trailer on it while only going up hill in regen mode. Now the truck will shudder And shake like the motor is coming apart on flat ground without a trailer...

Welcome to the forum, Jeremy6.7. I'm the Ford Service rep on this forum; I'd like to get your shuddering/shake concerns into the hands of your regional customer service manager. To get things started, send me a private message (PM) with your full name, best daytime phone number, VIN, current mileage, and servicing dealership. I'll take it from there. :thumbsup:

Crystal

 

Jeremy6.7 you can also report you issue at the link below. Several have as you will see. You will nee to search under f-250 on the site not f-250SD.


https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/index.xhtml

 

+1000

This will be the only thing that will push Ford to do a recall or broad level buyback of trucks with this issue.

 

I did a report on my last 2015.

 

At 8K miles my 2015 F250 started the violent shudder during regen. I have taken to the dealer (45 miles away) and they have flashed the computer per a TSB dated 8-11-2015. Now 10k miles, Still shudders and now the truck shifts differently. I do not know if the TSB referenced in my repair order is newer/different than those referenced here, but I will look today and post #....

 

I just got a 2016 and will be doing a 4000 mile trip starting Monday...I'll post back either way on it's performance. Love the improvements since the 2011 I had.
On a side note I never had rough running in 125k miles on the 2011. What have they changed since 2011 to make this happen to you folks?

 

The company I work for now got tired of all the diesel drama and expense and went to gassers in 2013. They have not looked back.

 

After months of going back and forth with Ford customer service and the dealer, the dealer finally received a message from Ford. Not sure if this went to all dealers or not. Bottom line, they admit there is a concern and are coming out with a fix, but not until March 2016. Hey, it's progress. Better than telling me that it's normal. The TSB referred to below is not out yet. Once my dealer has that info, I will let you know. See below from dealer email to me:

"SSM 45270 - 2015-2016 F-Super Duty Vehicles Equipped With 6.7L Diesel - Runs
Rough During Exhaust Regeneration Process - Updated Calibration Due 1Q 2016
Some 2015-2016 F-Super Duty pickups equipped with 6.7L diesel engines may
exhibit a runs rough condition during exhaust regeneration. This condition may
occur when the vehicle is idled for prolonged periods of time or when frequently
driven short distances that don’t allow the regeneration cycle to complete. A
calibration to address this concern is expected to be available in late March
2016. Forcustomers that insist on a repair it is allowable to perform TSB
15-0124 until the calibration TSB becomes available. To avoid a repeat
occurrence customers need to be reminded to follow the drive cycle
recommendations in the “Customer Information Sheet” that is included with TSB
15-0124. "

 

I have a 2015 F350 having the same problems listed here. I just hit 17,000 and yes it feels as if the engine is going to drop while its sputtering and clanking. I tried to call the customer service listed to reach Crystal, but i dont use twitter or know how to message off of facebook. Any ideas on how to contact them a get a claim filed???

 

Welcome to the forum, CLogan! You can reach out to me via private message (PM). Just click on the "FordService" on the left side of this post and select the option to send me a private message. When writing, be sure to include your full name, best daytime phone number, VIN, current mileage, and servicing dealership. Let me know if you have any difficulty, and I'll do what I can to help out. :thumbsup:

Crystal