Don't forget that a fair amount of that weight will be on the truck distributed through the hitch. I don't have time to go through the numbers yet. If no one chimes in any time soon I will break the numbers down tonight.

In short, an F-450 will be fine hauling that much weight.

 

Sad to say it gets MORE confusing. Are you hauling for personal or business? What state (states)? Do you have a CDL? (if for business) but then again there are exeptions. Anyone (I think over 17) can get hired by a farm and drive a semi at 80k within certain range (forget if 60 or 100 miles) with NO CDL/med card/etc. As long as they are NOT hired as a truck driver. If hired to slopp the hogs they can also drive the trucks. If hired to drive truck (and feed hogs) they need a CDL. (fun huh?)
What is really fun is DOT/STate Patrol will often NOT tell you if you are legal/not. REAL fun is try to get them to put in writting "this rig is legal as outlined"
Many numbers on trucks are manufactures recomended numbers. Of course they are artificially low. (no idea of driver/speeds/conditions/etc)
I haul heavy and guy who owened truck before me hauled heavier. (once I get tranny rebuilt) That is cost of working it hard. For your load. 14,000lbs cargo (I figure you will want to add a fuel tank/spare parts/tools and other attachment) Hint put fuel tank in back of truck.
So get yourself a GN flatbed say 20' to 24' long with either 8000 lb axles (two) or 10k dual tandems. (20k) You could get by with 7k axles as 15% on truck but you know you will want to haul more and trailer weight.(anything shorter then 20' and you can't use it to haul other stuff.) So 16' flatbed with 4' beavertail and ramps. You can haul cars/pickup/tractor/equipment as well.
14k on a trailer with axles/tires rated for load will pull nice behind any 3/4 on up. You will likely void warrenty if you put that behind a 3/4 ton. I would say get all numbers down (like you started) and go to DMV/ DOT (better yet find a vehical Inspection Station and ask them. These are the guys who work with it.
Once I either trade mine off/fix tranny (what I am tempted to do) I would load that thing and (if it was my personal one) haul it anywhere I want in MN.
BTW Here is truck you are talking about in my area. http://www.johnwieseford.com/vehicledetails.aspx?vehicleID=6762 Just so you can compare prices.

if you don't need a crew cab/4wd I saw a dang nice F-450 flatbed (no dump) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif 2wd xlt much cheaper and less miles. (unless I never went off tar I wouldn't want a 2wd. )http://www.johnwieseford.com/vehicledetails.aspx?vehicleID=6763
Have fun.

 

So the low down is this. For COMMERCIAL use. Commercial, as defined by the federal goverment is engaging in any activity where you get paid. So me being a contractor, i'm commercial. Even if your a are a private carrier. If your gvw is over 10k commercial and you tow over state lines, you need a dot number and now need to comply with all the proper fed dot rules (med card, triangles. fire ext.). If you're under 26k combined gvw, then you need to check with your state. PA here kicks up to fed at 17k. So my 350 and my trailer in pa fall into dot territory, but without the trailer i'm cool. No restrictions on insurance as long as you are a private carrier. Now, if you're over 26k, you need to comply with dot and you need to have a cdl. I believe (and this is the only gray area) that you now would need to comply with the mandated insurance liability figures which is 1 mill in coverage. Here's the other kicker, if you are cdl, then you need to have a log book if you travel outside a 150 mile radius, if you stay in the radius then time cards are sufficent. I'm currently awaiting my DOT audit. You can get a dot number of the SAFER website. Read the FMCSA handbook, it has all the details in there.

Dan

 

2000 Ford F450 ... 7.3L diesel, 6-speed trans., 4X4 and has a crew cab. ... If you then add the weight of the truck, say 7,000 lbs, ...

If you say 7,000 pounds, you'll be a lier. When full of fuel with normal steel bed, toolbox full of tools, cooler, gooseneck hitch, and driver, you'll probably be close to 9,000 pounds, and I'd count on about 9,500. Only if you have an aluminum bed, almost no tools in the toolbox, no cooler, no auxiliary fuel tank, no passengers, etc., can you get the weight below 9,000 pounds.

...you're then at 24,880 lbs, only 1,120 lbs below the GCWR of the truck.

Guess again. You'll probably be well over the GCWR of the tow vehicle.

Would I be ok exceeding the towing capacity of the truck if I don't exceed the GCWR of the truck?

The "tow rating" of the truck is meaningless. It is simply the GCWR of truck minus the the wet and loaded weight of the empty truck. Note they said "Max. towing capacity 17,300 lbs", which means the wet and loaded weight of the truck can only be 8,700 pounds. "Max" is the key word. Some F-450s with no options and absolutely nothing the truck other a skinny driver might be able to tow that much trailer without exceeding the GCWR, but almost none. Good luck in getting the weight of that wet and loaded truck down to 8,700 pounds.

The GCWR in the Owner's Guide is not a law, either. It is a guide. If you exceed the GCWR on a stock truck, then you won't have enough power and torque to drag the trailer up a steep mountain grade at a reasonable speed - without overheating and "burning up" your equipment.

Are they just simply breaking the law and hoping to not get busted?

Is it legal to exceed the GCWR of a truck?

Is it legal to exceed the manufacturers max. tow rating for a truck?

When it comes to "legal", every state and province is different. In most you can buy a license plate that will allow you to legally far exceed the GVWR or the GCWR of your truck. And as explained above, the tow rating is meaningless.

In most jurisdictions, you can't legally exceed the weight rating of your axles (front GAWR or rear GAWR). And you can't exceed the weight capacity of your properly inflated tires. But most other weights depend on which license plates you buy.

Also, whether you need a commercial driver's license (CDL) varies. The Federal DOT has their rules, but if you don't cross any state lines then you might get by with your local state or province rules. But basically, if the GVWR of the trailer is more than 10,000 pounds, or if the total weight of the truck and trailer is more than 26,000 pounds, then you'll probably need a CDL.

I thought that by going to the F450 I'd have more than enough truck to pull this load, but the more I look into it, it seems that the F450 is not enough. Am I wrong? Am I missing something or misinterpriting something?

Yep. You're missing the state license requirements and maybe the Federal DOT requirements.

More than likely, that F-450 will be just fine for your needs. Buy license plates that allow 30k combined weight, be sure your tires are in good shape, be sure your CDL and insurance are paid up and current, and hit the road. If you climb mountains with that rig then you might decide to hot-rod the engine some to pump out a few more horses so you won't be a rolling roadblock. Have you ever got behind a '60s VW Microbus full of hippies climbing up to Estes Park in Colorado? Now that's what I call a rolling roadblock.

 

EXTRA!! EXTRA!! STOP THE PRESSES!!!

The last few days all over Texas, my horse showing, barrel racing, and rodeoing friends have been being stopped in their 350, 450 and 550's pulling multi horse living quarter and 6 or more horse trailers w/o living quarters and being warned about the need for CDL and warnings will cease soon and fines will begin.

Somebody must have gotten a bug up their tail (Atty General, DPS chief, Gov Perry???) and the hands off on non-commercial but technically overweight truck/trailer combos is over.
I guess I'll go get a SRW 350 with 9900# GVW and be MUCH more unsafe but within the published mfr's limits. (I'm not really gonna do this...)

If I need a CDL then a class 8 retired tractor will be pulling my trailers soon.

 

03' F450, 6.0, 5 speed auto, 4wd, Crew Cab, Western hauler bed, 1/2 fuel, some tools in boxes.. weights in at 9,100 and some change.. Have the weight slip to prove it...

 

In California, if your GCWR is over 26K, or if you are towing a trailer with a GVWR of 10,001 lbs or more, you must have a CDL. For your example with the F450, you would definitely need a CDL to pull it in CA.

 

I'm not sure about equipment trailers, but I do know you don't need a CDL at 10,001 with a fifth wheel RV. 10,001 up to 15,000 GVWR only requires an endorsement. Over 15,001 requires a non commercial CDL.


Sent from AutoGuide.com App

 

I'm not sure about 5th wheel RVs, but it definitely applies to equipment trailers, for hire or otherwise.

 

Right, the increased 15k limit is for RVs only. CA is a silly place.

 

This is what Texas says.

CLASS A: Any combination of vehicles with a gross combination
weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more,
provided the gross vehicle weight rating of the
vehicle or vehicles towed exceeds 10,000
pounds;

CLASS B: Any single vehicle with a gross vehicle weight
rating of 26,001 pounds or more, any one of
those vehicles towing a vehicle that does not
exceed 10,000 pounds gross vehicle weight rating,
and any vehicle designed to transport 24
passengers or more, including the driver; and a
Class B license will be restricted to operating
busses under 26,001 pounds GVWR if the skills
test is taken in a bus with a GVWR of less than
26,001 pounds; and

CLASS C: Any single vehicle or combination of vehicles
that is not a Class A or Class B if the vehicle is:
1) designed to transport 16 to 23 passengers
including the driver; or
2) used in the transportation of hazardous materials
that require the vehicle to be placarded
under 49 CFR, Part 172, Subpart F.

It only states that if the GCWR exceeds 26,000 lbs. The question is where do they get the GCWR.

(2) Gross combination weight rating (GCWR)--The value specified by the manufacturer as the loaded weight of a combination (articulated) vehicle. If there is no manufacturer's specified value, gross combination weight rating is determined by adding the GVWR of the power unit and the total weight of the towed unit or units and any load on a towed unit.

My truck has a manufacturers GCWR of 26,000 lbs. Therefore it does not qualify under Class A or Class B. Also nowhere in the Texas statutes (that I can find) does it state that having a trailer over 10,000lbs GVWR requires a Class A or B license. If anyone knows the Statute please post it.

 

In TX, this is the easiest way to determine what license you need: TxDPS - CVE Commercial Driver License Classifications

Answer a few questions and it'll tell you what you need.

 

The questionnaire does not cover everything. This is also in the book.

Who needs a Commercial Driver License?
All drivers who operate a commercial motor vehicle (see
definition on page 1-1) will be required to have a
Commercial Driver License (CDL) by April 1, 1992. The law
does provide for some exemptions. If the driver meets one
or more of the criteria listed below, he will not be required to
have a CDL. However, the driver will be required to have a
Class A, B, or C Non-CDL License.

1. A vehicle that is controlled and operated by a farmer;
and used to transport agricultural products, farm machinery,
or farm supplies to or from a farm; and not used in
the operations of a common or contract motor carrier; and
used within 150 air miles of the person’s farm.

4. A recreational vehicle that is driven for personal use.

 

The questionnaire does not cover everything. This is also in the book..

Right. It only covers who needs it with respect to vehicle weights. It's intended to clear up the GCWR/GVWR issues and it's assumed that if you're in a commercial business that you understand the necessity or applicability for a CDL outside of the weight issues.